doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Simon says, Oh, never mind…

Putting the debate over science and insults aside, here is a different problem many would face in an eventual ban on lead ammunition:

There are many vintage deer rifles still in the woods. Yes, they make lead-free rifle ammunition, but only in the most popular or best-selling calibers. Not everyone hunts with a .30-06, .308, or .270. I have seen it in .30-30 and .45-70. The guy who hunts with a .32 Winchester Special, .35 Remington, .300 Savage, or even .250 Savage is going to be out of luck, because the ammunition manufacturers are just not going to produce those calibers. Right now, it's still tough to find lead ammunition in those calibers.

Is the guy who likes to hunt with his great-grandfather's Remington Model 8 or 81, or Savage Model 99 supposed to just hang it over the mantle? Or just buy a new rifle? I can tell you that there are still plenty of those rifles and calibers in the Northwoods (Maine, Adirondacks, etc.).

How about the traditional muzzleloading hunter? Hornady produces a lead-free bullet designed for the modern, in-line type muzzleloaders, but they are not compatible with a traditional flintlock or percussion rifle. Hornady or Speer have no plans to produce a lead-free round ball. I asked.

Vintage and antique shotguns have been well discussed and covered in numerous posts and threads.

While I believe individuals here are passionate and sincere regarding the environmental and wildlife impact of continued use of lead ammunition, the activists and money groups, along with the current regime are just using any bans as a way to curtail, restrict, and drive people away from hunting.

Tell me more about the proliferation of garbage in peer reviewed publications. What, in your opinion, is this garbage and which publications? I posted one above - neither you nor anyone else wanted to comment on that. Fine, but if you are claiming it is garbage - prove it.

So habitat is a greater problem for condors. What's your point? Habitat is probably a greater problem for upland birds than poaching - does that mean we would ignore poaching? Clearly, environmental lead can affect condors at a population level. Do we blow that off because habitat is "bigger"? And how do you really know it's bigger? What facts do you have to back that up? I don't disagree or agree with you on that. Show me.

Last, I don't have much problem with lead for upland game in most places and I continue to use it. Have I said otherwise?

If you attack science as false, and you have, it should be very easy to disprove it. If you don't like the way science is being applied in the form of laws then you have your ballot and the Great American Way. Sometimes, your way turns out not to be the Great American Way. That's the way it goes sometimes, if you are an American.

Presumably, many more non-tox bullet calibers and conformations would become marketable in a total non-tox world, but I have my doubts. Frankly, the ammo makers are not even trying to supply brass in many of these chamberings already. Loaded ammo is effectively extinct for most of them (seen any .30-40 loaded ammo lately, lead or otherwise?). Even common stuff like .32-40 is now uncommon, at best.

I have heard that there are totally satisfactory substitutes for lead using patched roundballs. I don't know if this is Bi-Sn, but I suspect it is, and of course, that would be very expensive. In any event, there is something out there.

I don't see the current "regime" driving people away from hunting, but if it fits your agenda, why not claim it.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/conse...dmins-regulation-efforts-hunting-fishing


Sure.

Best,
Ted

In mid-February most of Europe (except Britain) banned the use of lead shot for any game shooting within 100 metres of any 'water course or lake'. It will be interesting to see if this is enforced in the next season. Even having one cartridge in your pocket counts as an offence!

However at the same time they said that shooting wild boar with a 12 bore roundball would continue to be OK, because the little birds could not swallow such a large lump of lead...

A reliable source of truthful information.

Sure.

Best,
Brent

There are commercial sources for rare, obscure, and antique calibers such as .32-40 and .38-55. Black Powder Cartridge Rifle shooters also would be hard pressed to stay in their activity if lead ammunition were to be banned. They all don't shoot .45-70.

I do all of my deer hunting with traditional muzzleloaders or my 1885 single-shot in .38-55. I can tell you that there are no suitable non-toxic round balls available. A small company produces Bismuth round balls in a few calibers, but they are under-sized, and results have been spotty at best. I see zero opportunity for a non-toxic .38-55 cartridge.

As to Fox News, not always reliable but something has to be an alternative to most media which have evolved into American versions of Pravda or the "Daily Oppressor."

All they really do is read from DNC talking points.

You're in the thick of these publications, you must be familiar with the peer review in question. Does the content of your character matter, regarding the credibility of a publication?

Why question a publication, you have patent nonanswers, why attack your version of science, you have obvious nonanswers. Here's a thought, you are the problem. If you are right, answer the questions that you make fun of and talk down to, or don't. Thank you for showing what to expect of the next generation of "ecologists", equity, diversity and inclusivity, core tenets per the website, huh Brent.

craig, thanks again for the humor. Pretty good stuff. You should quit your day job and do stand-up or the digital equivalent. Does character matter? Depends I suppose. If you have a known reputation for lying and making stuff up, as you do, then I suppose it might. But many publications have gone to blind peer review. Yet another level of striving for perfect objectivity. Unlike Fox News, for instance. Did you hear about their latest scandal with regards to Marine Sargent Nicole Gee? Sadly, that is not so funny as your crap.

Meanwhile, the answers are in the literature, and it strongly disagrees with your line of BS. But carry on. I'm sure you will find another amusing alley to wander down without telling us exactly how you know that the science on lead poisoning in wildlife is "garbage". Lets see it. We keep asking for the data.

Such foolish nonsense huh Brent, you hypocritically shoot tons of lead shot out of classics and antiques, then make fun of others who are running out of options.

Take a look at what has happened to the number of hunters in kali, home of your, double down, nothing is too good for the condor. The fifth largest economy in the world has sapped the will out of the next generations of hunters. But hey prof., you already knew this, didn't you.