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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,686 Likes: 118
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,686 Likes: 118 |
simple reality is that steel requires much high velocities to come close to lead shot performance - in both range and lethality. my experience with steel was brief and unsatisfactory; the first year it was required (1984?), i was invited on a texas coastal goose hunt and bought one box of steel 4's. used them in a brno zh o+u with chrome lined bores - took half the box to drop (not kill) the only bird taken that morning (3 shooters). i gave the rest away, and have never bought steel since....the cost of other non-tox is daunting - but, as a portion of the expenses involved in hunting....it's not a deal breaker for me. i think too much of my guns (humble as they may be), to inflict steel shot on them.
there are many here who disparage bpi (ballistic products inc) loading data as being hazardous to the health of guns and shooters - and i am in agreement with that sentiment. but, they are quite adamant that velocity is the key to steel shot performance....and they will sell the components and supply the loading data to folks who are willing to subject their guns to the level of abuse required for steel to "shine".
i ain't one of those folks...
best regards,
tom And there you go. The OP said he bought the gun to "specifically shoot steel shot". My only question is: what are you going to do when everyone tells you not to use that gun with steel shot because it takes too much of a load to hunt with? Then the gun is useless? That's all I'm asking. Oh well.
Last edited by Jimmy W; 11/24/23 03:42 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,269 Likes: 521 |
My goodness again
That would be the CIP High Performance (Magnum) MSIP of 1200 BAR = 17,405 psi for a Service Pressure of 1050 BAR = 15,229 psi Crazy right. I shoot that load through a 9 pound Remington 3200 for ducks. It can handle it, but there is no way that I would shoot that load through a light or medium weight modern or vintage fowling SxS type gun. Friends have used this same load in Browning BSS’s, SKB’s, etc and all of their guns are currently off the face, some have cracks in the stocks. This load is considered a fairly mild type loading for shooting game with Steel shot in regards to payload and velocity.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
Free recoil:
7.5# gun with 1 1/8 oz. shot at 1200, (3 Dram Eq.) is 23.0 ft/lbs
7# gun with 1 oz. at 1365 fps is about 24 ft/lbs
8# gun with 1 1/4 oz. at 1220 fps (3 1/4 Dr. Eq.) is 25 ft/lbs
9# gun with 1 1/8 oz at 1550 fps is 28.5 ft/lbs
8# gun with 1 1/8 oz. shot at 1550 is 32 ft/lbs.
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744 |
Not a steel shooter. I have guns I could shoot steel through, but, none of them are doubles.
A King Ferry Ithaca model 37 12, a 3” gun, that nobody would confuse with a Featherlight. The barrel, with its screw in chokes is a gas pipe.
A Hastings barreled Browning A5. Same deal, the barrel dwarfs the original, and passed French proof.
At the present, shooting lead and some bismuth or heavy metal loads through 16 and 20 gauge doubles, when I absolutely have to. An old Uggy 12, relieved of its former mod/full chokes, I could shoot steel through, but, mostly because I’m not terribly concerned about the condition it ends up being in. That is different than being able to actually shoot steel, but, is an option that is out there.
Look to England to see where old boxlocks are ending up. We don’t have to save all of them.
Best,
Ted
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2 members like this:
Tim Cartmell, Parabola |
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 904 Likes: 359
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 904 Likes: 359 |
Good thinking.
My Edwinson Green BLE with Whitworth steel barrels (£38/3/0d. in 1895 when that was a lot of money for a box-lock) gets grudgingly fed Bismuth when shooting over wetlands, but lead otherwise.
If I have to shoot steel or nothing, it won’t be that gun I use.
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1 member likes this:
Tim Cartmell |
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 168 Likes: 57
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 168 Likes: 57 |
Hi Guys, I dug out the shotgun and had a look at the barrel flats. It is marked 1320 BAR Proof, along with the Fleur-de-Lis stamp. So does that constitute the use of High Performance Steel? I also went to Gamebore's website and found their 2 3/4 inch Game Load for steel shot. 12 Gauge, Dark Storm High Precision Steel loads, 1400/1490 fps. They state re: this cartridge, "Shotgun proof and choke recommendations for each load: 5/32gms Standard Nitro Proof Modern Shotgun. Half choke maximum. 4/32gms Standard Nitro Proof Modern Shotgun. Half choke maximum. 3/32gms *High Performance Steel Proof Shotgun with Fleur de Lys stamp. CIP regulations state no choke restriction however we strongly advise Half Choke Maximum." So from their statement, even though CIP okay, Gamebore is still advising to only use 1/2 choke Maxiumum for High Performance Steel Proof. Gamebore Dark Storm Precision SteelI think the level of recoil could be a real factor in a light game gun. Still early in the British steel game, maybe better loads/options coming down the road. _______ TC
Last edited by Tim Cartmell; 11/24/23 05:11 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,269 Likes: 521
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,269 Likes: 521 |
Yes,
1/2 choke is usually max constriction for steel loads….the exception being special barrels or chokes designed and built using materials for shooting steel through tight chokes.
And you’re right, the level of recoil generated by these loads is going to be a real factor when it comes the action and wood on your gun.
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1 member likes this:
Tim Cartmell |
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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744 |
There is just something about a between the wars (The Football war and The Satan’s Choice-Popeyes war) Spanish double gun that makes a guy say “Meh-gimme a couple steel loads, and let’s get on with it”.
Best,
Ted
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 264 Likes: 85
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 264 Likes: 85 |
...The Satan’s Choice-Popeyes war... Now, there's an esoteric reference. I once dated a girl whose much older rakehell cousin had reportedly been in the Popeyes.
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1 member likes this:
Ted Schefelbein |
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
Yes, that is the CIP "High Performance" (Magnum & Steel) MSIP is 1200 BAR = 17,405 PSI for a Service Pressure of 1050 BAR = 15,229 PSI, and Mean Proof Pressure of 1320 BAR = 19,145 PSI. And I still wouldn't go there in a < 7# gun 
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1 member likes this:
Tim Cartmell |
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