doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Steel Shot through Improved Modified Choke

That sounds like a lot of PSI, but didn't I read somewhere that it took over 50,000 psi before they could damage or blow up test barrels from a Remington 870 a few years ago?? Or did I read the article wrong?

Hey Jimmy,

It's all good. No worries. I'm not upset about any of this. It's a very good discussion about concerns I hadn't thought of before.

I haven't heard back from AyA, and if I do, they will likely just say that the shotgun was tested by the Eibar Proof House, it passed proof and so is good to go. In my mind they wouldn't be wrong if the CIP Regulation makes the statement "no choke restriction" for High Performance Steel Proof. But if the ammunition manufacturers are advising against it, then I think it's better to be safe than sorry over potentially damaging an expensive shotgun. It' a very nice gun, I like it and have been using it all along with lead shot since I bought it. I had just thought if the Government policy ever changed regarding lead shot where I live, then I could still have an option with using steel shot in a a modern shotgun. Again, no worries. It's all good.

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TC

Vintage guns and steel typically do not go together. As previous posters have noted the speeds required to get steel close to lead performance push guns to max pressure and possibly max recoil. It simply drives home the reality that vintage doubles should stick to Bismuth if non tox is required.

I keep an old Franchi Auto from my grandfather, with an extra barrel I purchased in order to shoot steel and not care about barrel damage. it works for dove, though I prefer my side by sides.

There it is. The simple and obvious solution for hunting scenarios.

Well, I 'll remember that. I thought his gun was a new, modern gun. I'm not that familiar with AYA. Sorry.

The article I read about psi was by a Tom Roster that he published in 2014. He said that SAAMI provides for the mean average of 19,800 psi proof loads for proofing barrels for 2 3/4" or 3"-- 12 gauge loads. He started by using loads that developed 20,000 psi in the test Remington 870 barrels. He worked his way up- 5,000 psi at a time until he reached 50,000 psi with no damage to the barrels. At 55,000 psi the barrels blew up. He stated that most barrels blow up because of obstruction. Not by high pressure. So, as I said, maybe I misunderstood the article. I knew guys who used to shoot 1 1/4 trap loads that probably were pretty stout in their Model 12s for years. I guess I don't notice things that other shooters do. Like recoil and trigger pull. You guys talked about the heavy trigger pulls in the CZ Bobwhite shotguns. I stopped in at my local gun store last week and looked at several of their SXSs and when I dry fired them, I thought- that they felt OK to me. Ha-ha!! They were a little "crisp" but I figured that I'm probably heavy handed or something. Ha-ha!! Good luck and take care.

I came across this old TGS Outdoors video on Youtube. They were testing standard steel shot 2 3/4 inch, 28 gram, #5, shotgun cartridges in a vintage W. Richards of Liverpool, 2 1/2 inch chambered SxS, choked IC/IM. They fired a box of cartridges through the gun without any ill effects, other than recoil. However, the "newer" old Spanish Ugartechea shotgun discussed, did have some barrel damage from using 3 inch magnum steel, specifically, some slight rivelling, a bulge on the left barrel at the choke end, and a recoil disintegrated shotgun safety.

The testers did allude to recoil being an issue with lighter guns, as LeFusil and Drew had commented on previously in this thread. The older fellow stated that he once had an 8 lb. Webley & Scott made Greener Empire wildfowling gun. He said that he took it off face shooting just a half a box of 3 inch magnum Canadian Imperial Cartridges (SAAMI? lead loads) through it back in the 1970’s.

They did mention the American Remington shotgun pressure test at the end of the video.

So my take away, even though barrels may take the increased pressures, it doesn’t necessarily mean the action, stock and shooter can take the effects of the associated recoil. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting discussion.

English Guns and Steel Shot

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TC

I knew that you had to be really careful shooting steel shot in an older gun. I thought you had bought a new gun, recently. Sorry about that. I did learn a lot too. I tried to post the story about the 870 testing, but this website blocked me because it was in another magazine. It was really amazing how much pressure an 870 could take. I have one with one of the 34" trap barrels. And an extra slug barrel. The trap barrel is choked so tight, when I tried to shoot trap with it, I couldn't hit anything. There wasn't any chipped targets with it. It was either turning them to powder or missing them completely. I have really had a hard time with it the few times I tried it out. Take care.

Interesting topic but just shoot Bismuth, although even the Kent Bismuth is a little hot for a spanish SxS. Unless you live somewhere where the sky is blackened by flushing pheasants, it's in the noise, cost-wise. When my state mandated non-toxic in essentially all public areas, I bought a Benelli Ultralight to shoot steel, but when Kent started selling Bismuth I was able to once again use my Browning A-5 Sweet Sixteen and 16 gauge Ithaca Model 37. But I won't put Kent Bismuth through my Ugartecheas or my Garbi. You just have to reload or pay RST, when they have them. Currently Rogers Sporting Goods has #5 12 gauge Kent Bismuth at $34/box, free shipping over $99.00 which if your gun can handle it beats the RST non-tox at $65/box. Now I shoot those Kent 12's in the Ultralight, the improvement in performance over steel is worth it.

Hi Jimmy,

My AyA is a new shotgun. I bought it new in 2012. But I do have vintage British shotguns as well. I never heard anything back from AyA though. Thanks.

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TC