doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com old doubles and no lead lead shot?

Hasn't Remington lost Hevi-shot? With the patent on Bismuth about to expire Remington needs a non-toxic shot to help fill their void.
All the best

Ted, you make a very good point here but I vote with my pocket book. A parallel can be made with fishing in WA. and deer hunting in MN. Fishing here is probably on par with hunting in MN. Years ago salmon fishing used to be my main past time but I haven't bought a license in about 3 years. I won't fish in this state anymore because of the restrictions and resource allocations to commercial and non-sporting interests. Sportsmen pay for the fish and others reap the harvest. If I want to go salmon fishing now I go to Alaska. And you're right, I don't go to Alaska every year but I sure as he!! don't fish in WA. anymore. And if I feel I'm not getting a fair shake with upland hunting here my money will be heading east until it's all gone and WDFW can add me to their used to hunt in WA. list. It's your money that supports their programs.

Jim

I am in the position that is different form the posters on this thread. People are making a case for future regs and talking about how they will feed their current guns.

I am looking at sinking a lot of time and money in a couple of guns that are only ideas in my head. If I already owned a couple of good upland guns, I would not be too worried about it either, so I understand the replies. I too would pay more for alternative ammo and not worry about it. But as it stands now, I could VERY easily see Minnesota outlawing lead shot even before the guns are completed. That goes doubley so if they can somehow link lead to a single wolf having a headache or something. I am serious and other MN residents know what I mean. Iron and timber are under the DNR, and a single day of logging or mining bring more money to the DNR than a couple of centuries of hunting licenses.

Additionally, no one has offered non tox skeet options if a guy wants to shoot his agun throughout the year. People talk about $3/round for hunting, but how many rounds of skeet will you shoot at that price?

What about that sleeving or chrome plating idea I had a few pages back? Has anyone had a bore chromepalted? Anyone know what are the typical families of steels in older doubles? Maybe sleeving with stronger tubes would be a way to keep older doubles going.

They banned lead shot near water a while ago here and for fishing.
The result the swan population increased, they eat more waterplants which resulted in less fish.

Funny this ecology system.

Marc, are you talking Damascus barrels or fluid steel? Can't help you with Damascus, but if you need to shoot steel and want to reload, Alliant offers at least one 1 1/8 oz load at 9,000 psi; lighter shot charges at reduced pressure. So as long as you don't shoot steel shot larger than #4 through chokes tighter than mod, and work up some of those low pressure reloads, there shouldn't be any reason why a vintage gun won't handle them. When and if we get Bismuth shot available again, you'll probably see even lower pressure loads available, with shot that's even more barrel-friendly. So I can't see that you're going to be out of business, even if MN were to ban lead for all upland hunting.

Ted, I realize SD isn't much for ruffed grouse--which is why I mentioned your neighboring state in the other direction (WI). As for people not traveling to hunt . . . east of the Mississippi, with the exception of WI and MI, and maybe from PA on north, virtually anyone who wants to hunt much in the way of wild upland birds is going to have to travel. It's been 10 years now since I guided pheasant hunters here in Iowa, but everyone I guided came from somewhere east of us, and hardly any of them did any wild bird hunting at home--simply because there wasn't much available to them.

Larry-

The guns would have steel barrels. So you would feel OK shooting steel in open choked doubles? Would you feel comfortable shooting steel in your Army and Navy pair? THe guns I build would be along similar lines as your matched pair, so that is a good apples to apples comparison I just thought of. If that is OK, then would have a lot more warm and fuzzy about going forward with these projects.

I don't reload shotshells now, but will start if I have to roll my own to keep old barrels happy.

I have shot a lot of steel shot through my old Husky underlever 12 bore. A lot of reloads and some Kent 1 1/8 2s as well as some Federal 2s 3s and 4s. I have inspected the brls and they are just as nice as the day I got the gun. I had the gun bored out IC Mod. I think it is mostly about pressure in the old guns. For that matter I am wondering if the new guns stocks are better for the wood they use to withstand all the pressure of some of the steel shot loads. I have to believe that a steady diet of the high vel. loads will have an adverse affect on the wood. I like bismuth better but only have a small supply left. The lowest pressure 12 ga 2 3/4 & 3" 1 oz loads I have seen are 8000 with Fiocchi Hulls and Alliant Steel powder.

And like I said Larry-if you think MN will ban lead and the liberals in Madison would just sit, and look stupid, you'd be very wrong.
Best,
Ted

I think it is just another attempt of back door gun control.
Lead is all going to China or so we are told.I dont see any ammo coming out of China,every thing else is so why no ammo?
Im a shooting instructor at $3.00 per shot I doubt I will be very busy in the future.
Why can't we use iorn,not a steel shot or bismuth, but plain old iorn,while it is not as good as lead it is cheaper.
We would have to make the games fit the shot or choke,but iron is softer than steel(no alloys)the wad makes up a large part of the pattern.
I have 150 pound of iron shot to play with and I would bet it will work(might not work as well as lead,but the cost will make up for it)
If they can't regulate the guns,the can make the ammo to expensive for most to continue to shoot.
Hunters for the most part don't shoot as much as skeet,trap or sporting clay shooters.
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays
Hampton

All this seem too much for you?
Well, I've hunted my land for years without a knock on my front door(gate).
I would think this could go on for a long long time...no matter what I shoot! Lead, steel, bismuth or industrial diamonds.
I will do what I think right for my own place...no matter what!
Ownership has it's privileges.