doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com FFL Question (maybe a little technical)

Is it permissible for someone other than the actual FFL licensee (in this case the buyer) to fax the FFL to the seller (also an FFL)? I was of the understanding it didn't matter WHO faxed it; faxes are now acceptable but does it need to have the FFL's name stamp and phone number? Thanks!

Hi Gil,

As a former licensee I can handle this one :-)

No sir, it doesn't matter. If the transferring dealer has any concerns as to the validity of the FFL in his hands, he can check the licensee on the ATFE web site.

Warmly,

Kyrie

I wouldn't think so. Back before they allowed the use of faxes the FFL had to be mailed. I, as the buyer, always mailed a copy it to the seller, not the actual FFL holder.

The recieveing FFL holder has to go online to verify anyway. I odnt see why it matters who does it. But if you trust shithouse lawyers, you shouldnt!
But really, I dont ask when one is faxed to me who faxed it. I just verify it online. The gun has to go to the FFL address anyway

A little off the main point, but when does a gun become an antique and not need a FFL or C&R.
Thanks.

JDW,
Any regular gun (not on the "bad gun" list that I can't recall the name of) over 50yrs old, is eligible for transfer under C&R regulations. Also, any gun on the specific C&R eligible list (that may or may not be over 50 yrs old), may be transfered as a C&R gun. An example would be Win Model 12's. All Winchester made M12's can be handled as C&R guns, even those less than 50 yrs old. All this can be found on the ATF site.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/2001index.htm

On the subject of verification of a FFL. Just my opinion, but my take is that the actual law only says a sender has to send it to a FFL. I don't believe the law says anything about how a sender must verify the recipient is actually a FFL. That stuff is all in 'advisory' material. I believe that means they have suggested that they will accept those methods they list for verification as 'due diligence', and won't harass you too much if it turns out the recipient isn't legally qualified to accept the gun. That doesn't mean, IMO, that other methods of verification are not acceptable. For example: prior to the web listing of all FFLs, who ever recieved Winchester's FFL ticket in a 'ink signed' copy, or any other major manufacturer's, before they shipped a gun to them???? As an individual, you can use any method of verification you deem appropriate, IMO. You just are not allowed to be wrong and ship to a non-FFL. That's my story and Im stickin to it...until proven otherwise.

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The Fed regs state the fire arm must have been manufactured prior to 01/01/1899 to be considered an 'antique'. There are state laws in some locations that do not recognize the Federal 'Antique Status' of a firearm and in those cases the fire must transfer on an 01FFL or 03C&R (in some cases only on an 01 FFL..NJ for instance)

For what it's worth, the last gun I wanted shipped my FFL informed me that he had to send or fax the FFL directly himself. In the past I had received copies of the FFL and sent them with payment. He told me the ATF had changed the rules because too many copies were given out and used for purchases that never were received directly by the FFL and consequently weren't logged into the book but were shown in the selling FFL book as being transfered to that FFL.
This dealer has both given me copies and faxed copies for me in the past and I don't think this was BS because we have a good relationship and no reason for mistrust on his part of me in particular.
Gunner

I am not an FFL, but I emailed the document to Cabela's. They shipped to the FFL no problems.

Kutter, thanks I wasn't sure if it was a cetain year.

Chuck, thanks also. I know that a gun over 50 years you could purchase with a C&R, in most states.
Also Cabela's, hear in Pa. anyway, requires a background check (FFL) on all ages, even antique.

The last gun I purchased out of state, the seller required a FFL from an FFL licensee and they faxed it to the seller.