doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What is this.It looks like a Mauser shotgun.

First off,

Roger, thank you. That would seem like common sense to me, but sometimes it takes a post such as yours to calm things down.

Second off,

John, could you email me pictures of your gun? Jeromeson@*NOSPAM*msn.com. Remove the *NOSPAM*. I could probably date it for you by features. Also, if you could take the stock off and tell me whether you see a horse (ex-Pieper Spandau Gewehr 98 receiver) or the stylized letters "SH" (ex-Siemens & Halske Gewehr 98 receiver) on the underside of the receiver where the barrel attaches, I would be appreciative. I'm conducting a survey on these guns and if there's one thing I've found, there's no such thing as doing too much research.

'D110', welcome and thanks for sharing your research. As usual, more pathetic 'babble' reponses. Anymore... plenty of knowledge to share around this place, if you have a phone# or address. Ruppel could be harsh, but he was respected and had actually seen a thing or two.
R.R.

Another author who wrote about these conversions of Mauser rifles to shotguns was Jack O'Connor in his "Shotgun Book". His opinion was also that they might not be as strong as would be desired; he was concerned that if the 3rd bolt lug (the only one which engages) let go there could be bad consequences for the shooter.

Wolf;
One quickly notes the 21 Win which O'Connor Lauded so highly depended solely on "One" hinge pin to contain all axial forces & "One" locking bolt to keep it closed. That never seemed to bother him & with a double there is always the possibility of "Both Bbls" going at once. The question really is not "How Many" lugs but is what's doing the work adequate for the job. I'll have to drag one out one day & measure, but suspect that "Safety" lug on a typical 98 has more metal in resistance than an average hinge pin.

D110;
It is my understanding the typical Mauser was made of a carbon steel & then carburized where needed for wear hardness, as bolt locking areas etc. Receiver rings on many are rather soft. As the front lug seats are done away with in the conversion the main place left for the heat-treating to be needed is the seat for the safety lug. I do not really see how the heat-treat on remaioning metal would be affected "Unless" they annealed the entire action to make the conversion easier. Do you have knowledge of the actual process used here?

"Do you have knowledge of the actual process used here? "

No. All I know is that the guns were "re-heat treated." I'm trying to find the info on the exact process, but it's just something which I've not run across.

"he was concerned that if the 3rd bolt lug (the only one which engages) let go there could be bad consequences for the shooter."

Which is correct. However, much as I respect Jack O'Connor, I think he underestimated the strength of the safety lug (remember, in his Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns, he raves about the Mauser '98 because of the dual frontal lugs, something not present in the Remo/Geha/Hard Hit Heart). I agree with 2-piper in that it's not how many lugs you have, but how strong your overall lockup is (for an excellent example of this, have a look at the single-lug Krag, something which has been debated over the years as on one side being something that has to be treated with great care/is somehow "flimsy" or the other side that says it's just fine to shoot the type of round it was designed for).

Now, if you did have an overloaded round or a 3" magnum in a Geha or design cousin that cracked the lug and you never bothered to look, well, that's a different story. That WOULD cause spontaneous failure of the lug and cause serious harm to the shooter. However, like I've said, I only advocate shooting very mild loads in these guns. They are safe with the proper ammo, but the proper ammo is pretty wimpy.

Several years ago I got into a discussion on this safety lug and single locking lug issue on the Krag rifle and safety. I have read so many warning about how the single front lug could break off and you would shoot your eye out. After the last go round of warnings I did what anyone would do in the circumstance; I ground off the front lug from a Krag. I built a safety box and gathered together about five or six folks to watch the fun. By remote control (a long string) I fired a couple factory rounds, then several rounds with handloads, then several rounds with compressed powder loads…..everything was just fine, no problem. So it was time to blow it up to see if a Krag (case hardened like the early 1903’s) broke or stretched. I dumped a LARGE load of Bullseye into a case loaded a bullet, pull the string and BOOM! Went to pick up the pieces and guess what it was still together. Finally had to put a lot more bullseye in the load then the barrel flew forward and the action broke apart at the safety lug…a fun time was had by all. I'm not advocating that anyone load the Krag over factory pressure I’m just showing how well the safety lugs work. If someone has a Mauser 12 gauge they don’t want I still have a test box.

You could be the Sherman Bell of Mauzers.

I have heard that the small gauge Remos have a different number or size of locking surface than the twelve gauge because of the smaller bore sizes. Do the small bores use the standard Mauser locking lugs or just the safety lug? How is the 28 gauge Remo locked up and how many lugs does it have compared to the twelve?

It always been my understanding that the safty lug in Mausers actions was not a contact lug.

Joe, that's true in the rifles. they weren't fitted so closely as to have all 3 lugs bearing. by dumb luck some may have but they weren't worked that way (cost prohibitive) but in the case of the shotguns where the front lugs weren't useable the headspace was set with the safety lug contacting it's shoulder.

Roger