doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com .577 BP. Qest to Marakkai and the other owners

Hey! Those are my relatives you're talking about!

Geno:
Sorry for this late reply, been busy lately. I take it you are intending to regulate the rifle in the normal way, perhaps with a wedge at the muzzles, when re-laying the ribs. You will need to choose a load to regulate with.

Notwithstanding the strength of an Englishman's shoulder, a .577 Express rifle weighing around 9 pounds will not be comfortable to shoot with juiced-up loads. I would strongly suggest sticking to the original factory loads for that rifle, ie 520gr lead bullet over 160gr Fg for 1725 fps (Eley catalogue, 1910-11), which should also regulate perfectly with a 570gr jacketed bullet over the correct amount of medium-burning smokeless (~75gr)to achieve 1650 fps (Nobel catalogue, 1925).

For a good hunting load, I might also suggest trying the Woodleigh 650-grainer (Cat No.5 for BP) at 1650 fps with your equivalent of Varget/IMR4895/Reloader15: I shoot that load in my Greener conversion as you know. It weighs 10.5 lbs and is very comfortable to shoot, but recoil would be stout in a 9-pound gun. Anything more would be silly IMHO.

Thank's, Tony, I expected your reply, but I have found this Eley and Nobel information allready and going to stick to 520 gr bullet over 160-165 gr BP for barrels regulation.
Later I'm going to replace wood and to order stock from heavy dense wallnut with pistol grip (now it's straight stock) and to add needed 1 pound and probably I will try 650 gr bullet.
Have you ever heard about Blue Dot as BP substitute in large bores such as 577 and 600 BPE?

Geno:
I would xpect Blue Dot to be too fast-burning to achieve adequate velocity without pushing up the pressure. Granted, it's a very slow shotgun powder, but still faster than the fastest rifle powders.

My personal rule of thumb would be to use the slowest powder which still burns completely while giving the required velocity, ie no partially-burnt powder kernels visible in the bore after firing. With the .577, that usually means medium-burning to perhaps medium-fast rifle powders, depending on bullet weight and barrel length.

Ross Seyfried wrote in his article Reload Revisited (DGJ Winter 1999) Allaint Blue Dot is the best nitro substitute for the BP in big bores.
Unfortunatly he didn't give the descriptions of the Big Bores, only the follwoing words: ...that use common shotgun description.
At the same time well-known Russian expert Markevith wrote in his book before the war: Big Bore Rifles - from 4G (26,72 mm) till 20G (15,62 mm). Next cathegory following his words: Double Rifle Express (BPE) from 14,66 mm (.577) till 9,14 mm (.360)
(.600 is in Nitro Express cathegory).
As you can see .577 wich is equal to 24G is at the edge between this two cathegories.
I guess nobody tried Blue Dot as substitute in large BPE bores such as .577, but I think it has to work in it, moreover the utilisation of the Blue Dot powder could about right and without visible dirt in bores.

I have to add to my words, all mid-slow burning long rifle powders work right at very high pressures only starting from 2200 to 3000 Bar. It's not pressure for express rifle, the express pressure I guess is about 1200-1500 Bar. Taking this fact, that old special black powders for expresses was very strong I expect, that express rifles can stand for very high pressures.

Geno:
I agree that a slow shotgun powder like Blue Dot may be well-suited to 'bore' rifles such as the 8, 10, and 12-bore guns, especially with round balls at 1000 to 1250 fps. With the larger conicals at slightly higher velocities, however, I would prefer slower powders, in the 'rifle' range. For the .577, definitely rifle powders IMHO.

In my experience, powders like ADI's AR2208 (sold in the US as Hodgdon's 'Varget')will burn completely in a 26 or 28-inch barrel while pushing a 650gr Woodleigh to 1650 fps. In a 22-inch barrel, there is evidence of partially-burnt powder kernels in the bore. In that rifle, I use AR2206, which is ADI's next fastest powder but still in the 'medium' range, and no partially-burnt powder remains in the bore.

I should add that using AR2208 (Varget) in the short barrels works fine regarding accuracy and ballistics, but the muzzle-blast is spectacular so obviously a slightly faster powder was required for optimum efficiency.

Hope this helps.

Doesn't Sherman Bell & Tom the "Pressureman" Armbrust(sp?)
do some Nitro for Black BPE tests in one of the DGJs, I'm sure I read it.
He listed several nitro subsistitute powders for BPE...but don't remeber what.....I will look for the article
Franc

Found Shermans Nitro for Black BPE article...in DGJ Vol 16...issue 3..Fall '05...Pg 29
IMR 4198"Seems about perfect"..Loose quote....seems good info therein
franc

Seyfried's nitro for black formula is: Original BP load x .40 -.46 of either version of 4198. I prefer Hodgdon. Use a standard primer and dacron fiber on the powder to hold it against the primer.

Pete