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Forums10
Topics38,498
Posts545,429
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 194 |
According to those who think a 3 day inspection return is unconditional as long as the buyer pays the shipping both ways, I ask this question; why should I pay shipping EITHER way when a seller does not disclose damage, defects, or misquotes dimensions, etc.? If that's the way the three day inspection works, it means nothing. Why should I pay $50 to $100 to look at a gun that I know I wouldn't buy if I really knew what it was?
LCSMITH
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 130
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 130 |
I respectfully disagree. "As advertised" has literally nothing to do with a 3 day inspection period. Nothing at all.
Legg is a "dealer" because he routinely trades guns whether he has an FFL or not. He is clearly trying to extract the benefits of being a dealer without the responsibility of being a dealer, i.e. that an unscrupulous individual. Let me explain...
The purpose of a 3 day inspection, is to get the gun in your hands. If it doesn't feel right, or if it didn't look like you thought it did, or whatever...send the gun back. All guns look good in photos. The 3 day inspection period is to replace the classic notion of walking into a gun shop, picking up the gun and deciding whether or not to buy it. Because you picked it up and it was "as described" does not obligate you to buy the gun...anymore than shipping it does. The internet allows dealers to broaden their audience and customer base.... NOT TO rip off unsuspecting buyers. Agreement by a buyer to pay for shipping and insurance is part of that construct and makes the whole process work. The quid pro quo for the dealer is to operate as if the customer were physically standing in his shop.
This concept could not be simpler.
I repeat...Legg is a dealer. The reason trading guns over he internet works at all is because of this industry standard. If we didn't have 3 day inspections (or however many days), the only place guns would trade would be in the gun shops themselves physically and not on the internet. I repeat again...Legg is a dealer...not an individual trying to foist off some crappy spanish gun. Although this standard should hold true for everyone, this is an important distinction. Agreed, Since I am not able to hold it in my hands before the purchase a 3 day inspection means that I can return it for any reason in the same condition as recieved.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 194 |
According to those who think a 3 day inspection return is unconditional as long as the buyer pays the shipping both ways, I ask this question; why should I pay shipping EITHER way when a seller does not disclose damage, defects, or misquotes dimensions, etc.? If that's the way the three day inspection works, it means nothing. Why should I pay $50 to $100 to look at a gun that I know I wouldn't buy if I really knew what it was?
LCSMITH
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 36
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 36 |
The answer is ...you wouldn't. It is a good point, but a different isue. That is where "as described" comes in. You would still get to return it. The dispute over shipping would be that you received something that you didn't ask for.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,708 Likes: 121
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,708 Likes: 121 |
Wow!! We finally reached 20 pages. I never dreamed we would make it this far. But then again, I have the Mad Cow Disease, too. So, lets keep it up with the comments. Don't hide your feelings inside. Let them all out. You'll feel so much better........Denny Crane, self appointed narrator and chief instigator
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 809 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 809 Likes: 15 |
I don't have time to read all 20 pages, so I appologize if this has been said before: Of all of the retail dealers that I buy from, all have an, "All firearms sales final" policy. You can't return a gun just because you've changed your mind. If Jim were under obligation to have an all inclusive 3-day return policy by Gun Broker, then he would be obligated to do so. Otherwise the seller sets the return policy. I my business I have a limited return policy because returns screw up our inventory and cause strained relations with our vendors with so many returns. One should have their ducks in a row before ordering IMHO.
-Shoot Straight, IM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 256
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 256 |
Read this whole thread twice. Came to a coupla conclusions:
Jim should have accepted the gun back, and refunded the guy the
money. Then JIM should have started a thread titled: " Beware of
Eley22. Danger! The second conclusion???? Totally dismiss any
posts, from Homeless.......... Grant.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 433
Member
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 433 |
I consider a "Contract" to buy just that. Unless specifically spelled out otherwise I consider an "Inspection" period just that, a time to make sure it arrived as advertised. Standing in a gunshop, yes. The buyer looks over the gun, says "Yeah, I like this one, I'll take it", pays the shop and takes it home. Offer, acceptance plus consideration equals contract. It's the same over the internet, except the contract has to be completed a little differently...because the buyer hasn't seen the gun yet. There is no contract until the buyer accepts - "Yeah, I like this one, I'll take it" - and unless he has infallible ESP, it's perfectly impossible for him to do that until he has the gun in his hands. He ALREADY KNOWS that the gun will arrive in "as advertised" condition - that's assumed. The buyer has a right to so assume because it's the seller's representation. If the seller is a liar, that's a different issue that automatically prevents acceptance of the offer and completion of the contract, but that certainly isn't the primary reason for the requirement of an inspection period. "IF" it arrived as described (This one "Did") I would not expect him to take it back, because I changed my mind. The inspection period is there so that the buyer CAN make up his mind. The facile suggestion that the purpose is only to determine if the seller lied or not is utterly baseless, and certainly does not represent the market standard. An internet seller with an "if it arrives as described, it's yoah's, bubba" policy is looking for a "gotcha", and should be meticulously avoided.
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,129 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,129 Likes: 198 |
Maybe the bids should be separated by fifty bucks instead of five bucks above a certain bid amount on Gunbroker. That way, a "no questions asked" return can include a fifty dollar restocking fee. The refund on an "as advertised" return can be the previous bid plus shipping. There should be some cost to a buyer who is an idiot. Many times a shipping cost would keep me from returning a gun, but an added fifty bucks would add to the decision making process.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,435 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,435 Likes: 1 |
How many have seen a good looking gun in the rack at a dealer's shop but when you picked it up and mounted it, it just didn't "feel" right? We have discussions about this kind of thing all the time and some have even done scientific research on that phenomenon. I'm thinking a 3 day inspection period covers exactly this kind of thing and if it doesn't, it should be stated. Most wouldn't buy from a seller who stated such a ridiculous policy.
I agree with VRS that Legg has done himself far more damage by being such a hard head than by showing a little understanding and beng willing to adapt to the situation. Do unto others........Mr. Legg.
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