doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Thoughts on high volume shooting equipment

Many may not be interested in anything concerning high volume bird shooting anyplace, but after some thought I have decided that maybe a little of this may be interesting to a few. After being home for a little over a week I have organized a few thoughts that may (or may not) be useful to someone going to do the same for the first time. Hopefully the observations on equipment may be interesting to anyone considering the use of same. Others have more experience than I, some less, but these are my observations.

Concerning guns: Four years ago before making the first trip for high volume doves I decided to take a Beretta Silver Pigeon II Sporting (30") and a Beretta autoloader 20 ga. as a backup. I never used the auto, favoring the O/U for 4400 rounds. There were other close friends with me, all of whom shot either 12 or 20 ga. autos. All but one were bruised badly, some had terrible recoil damage to their shoulders. I had none, only a slight tenderness each evening which was gone the next morning. This most recent trip I took the same SP II, not even bothering to take a second gun. It digested 5300 rounds this time, one afternoon firing 1000 rounds in three hours. I had to stop after about 700 or so rounds and quickly hit the chambers a few strokes with a brush to rid them of plastic and powder residue when they got a bit sluggish to eject. This restored the ejection to perfect for the rest of the shoot. The gun has now fired over 10,000 rounds since new, most of them in very rapid fire. So much that the barrels would heat up so badly that my left thumb became blistered through a thin leather glove from inadvertently touching the top barrel. It was as near to abuse as the little gun will ever see, but she never whimpered. After four years of use now, not a single malfunction. I am very, very impressed with the durability and reliability of the 687 series, and its' shootability under extreme conditions. If I ever return for doves it goes back with me.
After two trips I see some things that certainly lend to shoulder and arm bruising and pain. Gun fit, of course is always a factor. This is one of the main reasons I take my own guns as opposed to renting the outfitters' guns. Secondly, shooter stance and mounting contributes to recoil injury. The "squarer" the shooter faces the birds the less slippage across the shoulder and onto the arm the gun does. I mount in the pocket formed just inside my shoulder muscle and face a bit squarer than many which holds the gun in place and recoil is directed squarely into my chest, not letting the butt of the gun slide across the chest and arm muscle. This slippage does horrible damage to skin and muscle and each successive shot fired after the first is from a little different mounting position, which does nothing for accuracy, either. Thirdly, I have come to believe that the mechanical actions associated with an autoloader lends itself to inconsistent positioning of the buttplate or pad on the shoulder and more slippage when successive shots are fired without dismounting. I'm sure many will laugh at this statement, but I am convinced that using an autoloader does nothing to reduce recoil damage to the shooter. Any reduced recoil due to the gas operation is offset by extra movement on the shoulder caused by the movements of the mechanisms in the gun at firing. I had several friends tell me of this happening to them this last trip, accentuated by the fact that some would fire as many as 6 shots before dismounting the gun.
Lastly on guns. I believe anyone can handle the recoil of a 20 ga. fixed breech gun for high volume shooting if it fits well and 7/8 oz. loads are used, and the stance and mounting are correct, with no recoil damage at all. I am 6'2" and weigh only 164 lbs., so muscle mass has nothing to do with it.

Shells and loads: Available to me were only RZ Caza brand Argentine loads in 7/8 oz. and 1 oz. shot weights. The quality of the loads are without peer in my estimation. I had not the first misfire in over 5300 rounds. I questioned as many of our group of 19 as I was able to, and every one who had misfires attributed them to residue building up in the firing pin holes in the bolt of their autoloaders. Many would quickly tear the gun down, clean out the hole and the gun would return to 100% fire. The 7/8 oz. loads are entirely adequate for all but the most extremely high shots on doves. On the last morning my bird boy showed up with 1 oz. loads after I had asked for 7/8 oz. ones for the whole trip. I was a bit perturbed until I began to see the doves flying toward me steadily climbing to clear a hedgerow of very tall eucalyptus trees. It took me a while to even believe they were shootable, and even longer to figure out the lead. Then the 1 oz. loads began to find their mark reliably and doves were falling from incredible heights with .015 and .020 chokes.

Ear protection: If hearing damage from shooting is cumulative, then one's hearing could be totally ruined in four days without very good protection. I have for two trips used a pair of the molded in the ear rubbery ear plugs and found them to be extremely comfortable for three hours plus, and also durable. I have used them for all my competition shooting as well for the last four years. Sixty bucks well spent.

Miscellaneous: A field bag of some sort is very handy to carry a camera, extra choke tubes, chamber brush and odd tools and other bits of kit. I use my old McAllister waxed cotton duck hunting bag and it works fine. A good soft case is important to carry your gun in the trucks in transport from the lodge to the shoots and back. A really good pair of shooting glasses is a necessity, for protection as well as to reduce eye strain. HiDefSpex are my faves.

Hope this rambling is of interest to some and maybe helps someone going for the first time.

Good post, one plus on the 687's reliability. I've used and abused a SPII in 20 and in 28 gauge, on two trips also without a single problem.
HM

Stan, Glad you had a great trip! Bobby

The last trip I took a Parker 16 gauge with 32" barrels that weighs 7lbs -4oz. I shot 3000 shells through it. I also took an SKB 485 28 gauge and shot 4300 shells through it. The SKB weighed 7lbs - 2 oz. The only physical complaint - my hands were sore from gripping the guns during opening/cocking.. That was in 4-1/2 days of hunting.

The trip before that I took a 28 gauge Beretta Silver Pigeon II with 30" barrels that weighed 6lbs 12oz. That was really a good choice.

Best,

Mike

Ever since my first Argentina trip in 1989, I've taken ONLY my Browning Citori 12 ga. I haven't been down since 2000, but If I go again I'll take a Browning 20, and not worry about needing a 2nd gun...Geo

I have used my 390 the last two trips and would not take anything else. Keeps shooting and doesn't kick.
bill

When I went with Amarillo Mike I took his Benelli 20 gauge. That piece of junk didn't last quite half a day before it gave up the ghost. And that was too long--my hands are slightly arthritic and shoving shells in the magazine became incredibly painful. Borrowed a Beretta O/U 28 gauge from the lodge (probably had well over a million rounds through it) and though the ejectors were problematic it never missed a beat. Loved the gun and ran over 3,000 rounds through it. No sore shoulder or tired muscles from lifting some heavyweight. If I ever go again I know it'll be a 28 gauge for me.

Here's proof that I actually hit one. The expression on my face is pure amazement! And, as you can see, it didn't take that many shots to do it....

now thats a funny picture....I don't care who you are.....

And I tried to get Joe to take the Beretta 28 gauge with the 30" barrels I had taken the year before instead of the Benelii 20ga. But you can't tell him nothin.

That picture shows his old ratio. I have been giving him shooting lessons and I have him down to 17 shots per bird now.

Best,

Mike

AmarilloMike (we call him Hawkeye) intently focuses all his predatory instincts to locate his next victim. "Hey, I think I hear one...."
Notice, I (the cameraman) am in front of the blind--the safest place around when Mike's shooting.


Mike had no idea the bird boys and I were setting this up. Notice the glazed eyes--that's what happens after shooting 7,500 rounds.

Good post Stan and great information!!! I wish more people would post information about their trips to South America giving the straight dope on how well their shotguns held up under the 'Acid' test of South American bird hunting.
A friend of mine goes to Canada for waterfowl and shoots alot of shells through his autoloader, it has failed him on numerous occasions, his backup is a Browning over/under. He still takes the autoloader for the recoil, old football injury and a bike accident has taken its toll on his collarbone.
Another guy I know goes to South America takes two Remington 1100 he only took one but the high volume and the relatively dirty shells contributed in jamming them up. Keeps on clean and uses the other until it stops.
And Mike and Joe you're the best!!!

Twelve-bore Fabbri O/U with 30+/-1" tubes should be top pick. Just make sure all star-shaped pins are tight and no second gun will be needed. Local boyz are sure to luv luscious naked gals by MT.

Hold still, Mike! I'll swat him!

Joe --- that picture is proceless, reminds me of me. ken

That is funny, Mike and Joe. As I can see that you know already, the friendships made and strengthened on trips like that are priceless. There is just so much more to it than shooting birds. There's the food, and the bird shooting......... there's the camaraderie, and the bird shooting......... there's the scenery, and the bird shooting. And, oh yeah, did I mention the bird shooting?

Stan Please keep me in mind next time your group is going. Sorry we missed you this year at our SxS shoot at Brush Creek, the weather was sure warmer than our trip to Occonee. Walton

I once saw a guy with a cheek that looked like yours.
He was shooting an ill fitting trap gun!!!!

You guys gotta quit picking on Joe Wood, he is actually a pretty good shot. I saw him kill a pheasant one time, he said someday he was gonna try one that was flying...

Until Joe wood started hunting with me he didn't know a bird could be shot in the air!

Mike

Stan, when I first started shooting trap I went with the Beretta 686 X Mono Trap. I bought an extra set of O/U barrels for it. When I first started shooting skeet a few months ago, I started using it and I really liked using it. I bought a Citori and started using it, but I keep going back to the 686. I really like the feel of the gun. The Beretta is a really great gun. Plus it has a little more weight and that is what I like about the gun.