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Joined: Nov 2008
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W.W. Greener in "The Gun and Its Development" 1896 states on page 250 "The invention of Choke-boring has been claimed by many and is usually attributed to American gunsmiths. Mr J.W. Long in his book on "American Wildfowling" states ... the earliest person to whom I have been able to trace a knowledge of it being Jerimiah Smith, a gunsmith, of SouthField, R.I. who discovered is merits in 1827..."

I have deleted part of this passage decrease typing time.

Greener describes various claims of improving the shooting of shotguns in the 1780's but apparently none were what we would call choke boring today that actually worked. this on page 249-250.
One appears to be a foem of choke "recessed" choke but the writer refers only to using a file type tool to scratch the bore back from the muzzle. It is further pointed out that this simply increased powder and lead fouling.

Greener also shows "relief boring" as being tapered from both ends and describes it as being done by boring from each end with a straight bit.
He calls a "jug choke" a "recessed choke". The tool for doing this was patented by an American in 1872.
I can fine no mention of choke boring at all in "The Gun" by W. Greener 1835. Perhaps he simply did not mention it. It is available online from Google books BTW.
Below are pages 250 and 253 from "The Gun and Its Development) 1896
Dan



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H.B.C Pollard in his book; History of Firearms, published in 1926, page 104 , describes the following gun in his collection:
"A hammerless flintlock sporting gun made in Bohemia in 1730, by Stanislaus Paczelt. the gun has a very thin steel thimble brazed into the muzzle as an internal liner to the barrel. This is the first known specimen of a choke or restriction at the muzzle to concentrate the pattern of shot." An example of this gun exists in the Tower of London collection.
The book, "One Hundred Great Guns",by Merrill Lindsay, page 186 carries an illustration of the hammerless flintlock made by Paczelt.
My appologies for repeating this post,but it represents a very important step in the development of choked barrels.


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Originally Posted By: Roy Hebbes
H.B.C Pollard in his book; History of Firearms, published in 1926, page 104 , describes the following gun in his collection:
"A hammerless flintlock sporting gun made in Bohemia in 1730, by Stanislaus Paczelt. the gun has a very thin steel thimble brazed into the muzzle as an internal liner to the barrel. This is the first known specimen of a choke or restriction at the muzzle to concentrate the pattern of shot." An example of this gun exists in the Tower of London collection.
The book, "One Hundred Great Guns",by Merrill Lindsay, page 186 carries an illustration of the hammerless flintlock made by Paczelt.
My appologies for repeating this post,but it represents a very important step in the development of choked barrels.


Its an excellent citation and apology is not required. But a choke makes the use of a ML very difficult and apparently caused more harm than good to the shooting qualities.
ML arms are not BL arms and things that work very well for BLs may not work for MLs. Thus chokes seem to have NOT been in common use in the 18th century and at the time reports were that a carefully bored cylinder shot as well or better than the choked guns. I suspect its because loading the wads through the choke makes them undersized at the breech.

European collections have many one off/very low production guns made for royalty or as journeyman/master gunsmith pieces to show a level of proficiency. This does not mean they were in common use or even practical or even meant to actually be fired. So finding a one off/low production gun in a museum in Europe is not an indication of its actual use or practicality.
Its a "See this neat thing I made, I should be a master gunsmith" statement in a great many cases.

If chokes worked in ML guns all the guns made in England after wing shooting became a popular sport with royalty and landed gentry would be choked. There is nothing to show that this is the case.
Gunmakers from the 1780s on were doing all sorts of things to improve the patterns, velocity and quickness of ignition (both locks and the breeches of the barrels). Almost all the improvements in reliability and speed of flintlock locks stem from this "arms race". The competition was so extreme that newspapers were running cartoons about "improved guns" and the patents filed. But the choke is not there in surviving guns or in the literature of the time.
This speaks VOLUMES. Had they had a surefire way of making a 30 yard gun into a 60 yard gun EVERYONE would have been doing it. To say that there was a lot of competition in this would have been a gross understatement. Having the ability to put "Gun maker to HRH" behind your name was a MAJOR plus and not only provided more business but allowed higher prices to be charged.
Thus based on surviving guns of this period we have to say that the choke bored shotgun was not considered practical in the 18th century and into the 19th and probably until the advent of the pinfire shotgun. The fact that Greener attributes the choke to an American gunsmith of the 1820s bears this out.

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It would seem to me that a 'jug choked' ML would pose no particular 'problem' loading, but would certainly add to the effectiveness of the gun at distances beyond 25~35yds.

If someone had figured out that methodology early on they would sure 'nuf had a leg up on the rest of their fellow fowlers.

BTW,HJ, those are wonderful pics and explanations on your turkey adventures, thanks for sharing them w/us.

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Originally Posted By: tw
It would seem to me that a 'jug choked' ML would pose no particular 'problem' loading, but would certainly add to the effectiveness of the gun at distances beyond 25~35yds.

If someone had figured out that methodology early on they would sure 'nuf had a leg up on the rest of their fellow fowlers.

BTW,HJ, those are wonderful pics and explanations on your turkey adventures, thanks for sharing them w/us.


Yes, people jug choke MLs all the time *NOW*, it works. But there are no surviving examples of 18th century guns or even 19th century that I know of. There are no mentions of choking in ML guns by people like the Greeners (W circa 1835 and W.W. in the 1890s) at least not prior to 1827 when choke boring was apparently invented (reinvented?).
We do have examples of people trying to choke guns in the 18th century but failing to improve the patterns or even making them worse according to the page reproduced above.

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I've read some 'Ole English' type verse that refers to controlling the dispersement of the shot by changing the ratio of the powder charge to the shot charge and in effect choking the barrel. I've tried pattern testing this theory myself and noticed a change but didn't go far enough with my testing to draw a conclusion about its effectiveness.

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Originally Posted By: treblig1958
I've read some 'Ole English' type verse that refers to controlling the dispersement of the shot by changing the ratio of the powder charge to the shot charge and in effect choking the barrel.


The old books and pulp weeklies are full of discourse on experimentation with the trade off of powder and shot with particular emphasis on penetration. The shooters of the 19th century were more "hands on" than we are now. Brass shells were always home-loaded and loaded paper shells made their debut in the mid 1880s, as I recall.

I have a trap out behind my barn and I blow-off a lot of el-cheapo ammo like $4.99 per box, 1200 fps 1 1/8 oz 7 1/2s; for pheasants I use $9.99 per box, 1220 fps 1 1/4 oz no. 5s. I'll bet the "choke" of my Parker GH would "measure" quite different if I counted the percentage of shot in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards for the two similar fps loads.

It takes time to shoot patterns and counting all those little holes is quite boring, thus most of the choke boring banter we hear is on the relative merits of sticking a dime or some similar bore-diameter measuring device into the muzzle and declaring the job well-done: it's Full Choke!

Someday curiosity is gonna get the best of me and I'll find out how my selected ammo really patterns...and then the manufacturer will surely discontinue it. EDM


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In 1827 the French inventor, Jenour sold the rights to his patent wire cartridge to W.C.Eley. Within a year Eley had launched their range of patent wire cartridges calling them,"the greatest improvement ever produced in gunnery." With the wire cartridge,dispersion of shot was delayed until the cartridge had travelled some distance from the gun,thus considerably extending range.The advent of these cartridges eliminated the necessity for choke boring of muzzle loading guns to make long shots! The cartriges were produced in three grades, with the Green Cartridge intended for wildfowl shooting at long distances. Col Hawker[see his diary] provided Eley testimonials and recommedations related to these cartridges.


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And now they try to build a choke tube to strip the wad--go figure.

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In my experience,plastic wads do act as a shot concentrator;such that even in a cylinder bored gun resultant patterns approach that expected from a barrel with .015-.020 inches of choke when using cartridges with fibre wads.Is anyone else of the the same opinion?


Roy Hebbes
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