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Joined: Jan 2007
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Boxlock
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I've been bitten by the hammer gun bug and am starting to look around for possible candidates. I found this one on Guns International and would like to know more about it. Any opinions out there would be welcome. PM me if the information is inflammatory.

Thanks,
Marc

http://www.gunsinternational.com/detail.cfm?id=100050470&string=cid=483

Last edited by txshootist; 12/09/08 01:44 PM.
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It is based on the Pieper patents, 1881 and 1891. It is a later gun because it uses the Greener Crossbolt. I assume it is a Pieper, but can not verify that solely on the 2 photos.

There is currently a 10ga Pieper up on Gunbroker:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=118040885

Pete

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Pete,

Thanks for the quick response. Right now I'm a big fan of 16ga, so that's another reason why I'm looking at this gun, not to mention the price.

Do you know if the gun is safe with 2 1/2" 7/8oz low pressure loads? I would think it is.

The darkened chamber area is a little odd, but shows up on the 10ga example as well.

Are these bbls technically "twist" or are they "Damascus"?

Marc

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The 16ga barrels are twist which is technically damascus. I belive the 10ga are also but I've never seen twist with that pattern. Pieper is known for doing strange treatments on barrels. The thicker areas on the 10ga are an example, but I've seen steel chamber damascus barrel and steel muzzle on 1 gun. Areas were seperated with a gold band. I like the 16 better than the 10.

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Twist, Damascus, and Laminated Steel are all technically "pattern welded barrels"
The 10g barrels are Damascus Twist, a One Iron Crolle-Twist laminate also called Ferlacher and Lutticher London, Baker "Best London Damascus Twist" and "Barber's Pole." Very similar pattern barrels are found on LC Smith Maker Baker, H grade Lefever, and Baker Gun & Forging guns.




Last edited by revdocdrew; 12/09/08 02:27 PM.
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Sure looks like a good starter to me. Remember that the 16ga ammo is generally higher pressure than 12 ga, so you will have to be selective in ammo. Looks like a Pieper to me also.

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The barrels have fluid steel chambers with damascus tubes screwed in and fluid steel muzzle piece. This is Pieper's major contribution to the sxs development, though he in fact held many patents.



Yes, Pieper produced some unique patterns. Pieper ran his own barrel making shop which he named, "The Brazil Works".
For the Belgians, Twist, Laminated and Damascus were all produced using the same forge welding methods. The difference for them was in the billet assembly. Technically this may not be true of all countries.

It is an interesting example of the Pieper Diana as it evolved over time. The Diana and Modified Diana came in many grades. I have seen simple twist to Bernard type patterns on them. I have heard of 1 than had Pieper's name woven into the damascus.

Would I buy it? If I did not already own a Diana, then yes. I would not consider it high volume gun nor meant for heavy loads.

I would keep the pressures to 7,000 or less.

Pete

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And while we're on the subject of billets, that right barrel shows several iron-steel-iron-steel rods 'end on'



A plain twist ribband 'end on'



Horse-shoe damascus ribband 'end on'



Bernard II ribband 'end on'


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I do not believe the Imperial Gun in question is made on Pieper's patent breech. Look closely at the picture & you can see signs of the twist pattern under the bluing. It has the knuled ring around the bbls & the rear portion blued but pattern is visable, not a solid steel piece as on the Pieper Breech. Also note there is no joint in the top rib at the juncture. The Pieper breech illustrated with the muzzle ring is the 1881 patent & under this patent the bbls were not screwed into the breech but inserted from the rear & soldered in place. The breech piece stood proud of the bbls, not flush as on those screwed in from the front. My Pieper has the screwed in assembly & the bbls & breech have a flush join & there is no muzzle piece. The US patent # for the 1881 method is #246,195 do you have a # for the 1891 patent?


Miller/TN
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My late 1910's Bayard has the breechblock with steel barrels. I hope this photo helps as I don't know a lot about it. The rib does not have a join, it is one piece from breech to muzzels.

sv


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