doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Belgian Janssen Sons ---opinions please PICS

Sorry, boys, looks like just another Belgian Clunker to me. Chops

Thanks George. I forgot to mention having it inspected. John is correct about this maker being all over the place in terms of quality. Janssen was involved with several other makers in various collaborations. They did produce some very nice guns.

This is a Janssen from the link I provided above to Littlegun. Also a hammer gun.



The lack of flats and cupped receiver seem to be common. A Janssen of this quality was not the best of the litter. If you want to see a top Janssen, then Adolphe was the maker to choose:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...dolphe%20gb.htm

Pete

Thanks Pete - for the link...

The Gun looks interesting because it is not "clean" cut like a machining/stamping process will allow... it looks 'one off'

Yes - it is obvious that this company has used harder metals and better machining.

I have read also that many of these were mass imported to the USA... But unlike hershies melamine this gun has all the testing marks from proofing houses and it is also to German specs for the time... The metal of the reciever is not a standard gun metal... at least not the hardened steel or Damascus I am used to.

so my real question (apart from can it be used) is why was it made? Was it a tourist type catch the eye gun? Was it a special order? Was it an apprentice given the go ahead to make a gun?

The thing is - someone for the last 100 or so years kept it in really good condition... or didnt trust it enough to fire it all that much...

I guess maybes thats the appeal of these older guns...

Ya, if these old guns could talk. I love to take an old clunker, freshen it up and take it out hunting.
I like the gun but like others have said, it's all over in terms of quality. The lack of barrel flats is uaually an indication of a cheap JABC (just another Belgium clunker). It has a stock made of utility grade walnut set off with rather tastful carving (to my eye) yet the checkering is of very poor quality. The engraving has an art-deco look, it might give a clue as to age. I have no doubt the frame is made of steel or iron, you might check with a magnet. Despite the negatives, it does have character and would be a good candidate for Winchester AA Low recoil/noise shells or even the Winchester AA Xtralites assuming the a competant gunsmith checks it out.
Steve

I will take a stab at answering some of these. Something on the order of 1 million of guns were imported from Belgium over a 15 year period. They were always contract guns, IE, they were purchased by an American company with a contract to have them produced in Belgium. Remember Sears advertised that they had Belgian guns for sale.

The receivers were always fluid steel. Damascus was only used for the barrels.

The Belgian guild system was old and long. An apprentice would only move up after many years. Often a journeyman was hired based not only on experience and skill but also on the number of sons who could run errands for the shop.

It was most likely produced for a large catalog house. But as Steve wisely points out, if they could only talk. This one has been cared for. It was some one's pride for a long time until it became a hand me down. The art deco look is not much different than that seen on some graded Flues.

Having made all the above generalizations, I am sure there were exceptions to every one of them.

Pete

It was a price point tool made by an industry with lower labor costs, as well as an adequate labor force, trained, that could all but supply the world with longarms. One note on the German proof law of April 1, 1893 is that German excluded Liege from its proofhouse reciprocity forcing Belgium to revise their proof law on July 11, 1893 which lead to the "Crown" over "ELG" in an oval. Without it, Belgian tubes had to be reproofed/reproved in Germany. You see the mark of the tubes experiencing re-enforced proof, or something acknowledged by the German proofhouses, on your post 1898 longarm.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Hey Thanks everybody for the quick info on this gun...

We have convinced the owner to let it sit until a gunsmith looks it over well.

To my eyes it looked really interesting - the silver of the metal was just unblemished...It did not look like steel to me.

My dad thought the gun looked "wrong" on chintzy... sort of a fabulous fake. He thought the reciever metal looked like "pot metal"

Both of us were worried about the thing firing.

I checked the metal and all silver parts are magnetic, they are just in near original condition... bad die casting leaving a few small voids in the surface of the metal. No polishing leaving a grainy rough texture.

I am sure most of you have seen this book or have it...

The Gun and Its Developement

http://books.google.com/books?id=3HMCAAA...esult#PPA396,M2


Its a long link - but it describes what to look for in a double gun as well as what to spot in a fake... It mentions that Belgium was a common place for both poorly made guns as well as fakes that tried to pass off as quality manufacturers...

This article and everything you guys gave for input has really helped me spot some of the problems with this gun. I'm a sucker for history and this has been a great way to learn some things I never knew.... The gun is not a modern fake - it may not be a fake at all, but it is not well made.

Thanks again

Everyone have a good new years eve...