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Hello J.D.

Colin Greenwood was indeed a Police Officer around the time I was one myself. (1960's-70's). He rose to the rank of at least Superintendent, only three ranks below that of Chief Constable.

He did a PhD Degree on the Criminal Use of Firearms. One thing he noted was, that there is no record of any criminal ever applying for a Firearms Certificate (here in the U/K) in order to obtain a weapon with which to commit a crime. Something I also found to be true, during my many years as a Police Firearms Instructor and an Authorised Firearms Officer. Here in the U/K only a very small percentage of Police Officers are trained and Qualified in the use of Firearms.

Sadly the ability of Authorised Police Firearms Officers is far lower today than it was prior to 1997 when Handguns were banned completely in the U/K. Prior to that date nearly every authorised firearms officer I knew was also the member of a Pistol Club, and they owned and shot their weapons, at their own expense, on ranges every weekend.

Today the Authorised Police Firearms Officer gets one day a month on the Range, and they get to shoot perhaps 50 rounds on that day, if they're very lucky. No way at all enough to become even slightly proficient with their service issue handgun.

Sadly the Socialist, left wing Government we have had here in the U/K (New Labour) since 1997 has done away with so many of the Civil Rights we once enjoyed, rather like your Democratic Party who think they know more about firearms and their restriction of ownership than is good, for the average US citizen.

A disarmed civilian population, is not only at risk from the Criminal Element, but also from the Government they have unfortunately elected.

Harry


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Greenwoods book took some criticism for its limited inclusions of Martini and Snider rook rifles. He used the excuse that he didn't include the military rifles. Huh, rook size rifles are military?

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Well, here I was sitting smugly in front of my computer thinking I had obtained a bargain by obtaining Vol 1. Alex. Henry Rifles book by Winfer for a mere US$45.00 when an Email popped up saying that the bookseller was out of stock and would not be getting further supplies. Aagghhhh.

Don't you just hate it when that happens. I have reordered the book from an other US book dealer but at the higher price of US $85.00 + P&P.

If I get a similar message from this seller I'll be looking for my Ghurka knife with a view to removing some peoples heads. lol.

Harry

Last edited by Harry Eales; 01/04/09 03:51 PM.

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Originally Posted By: The Double D
Greenwoods book took some criticism for its limited inclusions of Martini and Snider rook rifles. He used the excuse that he didn't include the military rifles. Huh, rook size rifles are military?


Well gentlemen, my copy of Greenwoods book arrived today. A quick perusal showed that no Martini action rifles were mentioned and only one Snider action Rook & Rabbit Rifle was shown and that is a beautifully slim action in .380" short centrefire calibre. Reference is of course made to the military .577" Snider, but the Rook Rifle, although built to the Snider Action design, is not a converted military action, but is custom built, tastefully engraved, with a very elegant lightweight hammer, and beautifully stocked. There are no barrel bands or military sights, it is a rifle I would be very proud to own.

To our American and South African friends who perhaps have not had the opportunity to see, handle or shoot any of these rifles I would certainly recommend this book, it is by no means expensive at UK £19.95, and it is well worth owning.

The Ammunition is also of interest as some calibres are almost unknown outside the U/K. There is a whole chapter devoted to cartridges and reloading. How many of you know for example, of a .22" Long Rifle CENTREFIRE cartridge?

There is a fascinating range of different single shot actions most of which are not covered by De Haas or other authors of books on single shot actioned rifles.

I have been fortunate to have been able to participate in many Rook and Rabbit Shoots here in England over some 40 years, but I was restricted to carrying a .22RF Martini actioned rifle, the genuine original R&R rifles were already beyond my pay grade. Most of this type of shooting is usually done at ranges between 25 and 125 yards, the shooting is done offhand with leaf type express rifle sights, and no 'scopes'.

Rooks and Rabbits are both looked upon as vermin here in the U/K, but they're edible vermin, and Rabbits were often the staple meat diet of many a farm worker until perhaps three or four decades ago. (Jack Rabbits are called Hares here in Britain and they are classed as game animals and therefore can only be shot in season).

Rooks are a species of Crow and the shooting of these for the 'pot' is restricted to perhaps one month each year. The birds shot are what we call 'Branchers' i.e. birds out of the nest but yet unable to fly, these very young birds are edible and indeed were often a common sight in 'Game Dealers' shops for sale, when in season, and they can still occasionally be found for sale, even today. The adult Rook is inedible. (believe me I know, I've tried eating them). To those who think shooting young Rooks on branches as unsporting, they are usually on thin twigs at least 100 feet up, on branches that are being moved around with great rapidity in the March/April gales. To avoid damage to the best meat (the breast) headshots are the norm. Try shooting at a dime at 100 feet when it is under continual movement, you'll soon see how dificult it can be.

About thirty years ago I was rummaging through an old box of bits and pieces in a shop that once belonged to a gunsmith. In this box I found a single shot Rook and Rabbit Rifle of .22 RF cal. The action and barrel were of an unusual design. At that time it was of no interest to me. There was no stock or forearm, the bore was pitted, but in retrospect, it could be rebored and lined. The maker was Pape of Newcastle upon Tyne, better known perhaps for his Shotguns. I think I may just revisit this shop, on the offchance that this action is still there. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Harry

Last edited by Harry Eales; 01/05/09 06:08 PM.

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I had the same experience trying to buy Winfer's volume on AH rifles. I was informed that they are out of print and that there will be no more.

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All five books are avaialbe for various books sellers at http://www.abebooks.com.

To search Type Winfer for Author and rifles under key word, Then search. The are 8 copies avialable. One volume 1($125), one volume 2 ($60), three volume 3 ($65, $65, $79), one volume 4 ($60), two volume 5 ($58.06, $60).

Prices range

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Hello DD,
Thanks for the tip, I did try abebooks myself as I buy a lot of books through them but my search turned none of Winfers books up, however,
I already have vol. 1 in transit from the USA. Vols 2,3 and 4 were delivered yesterday from Kynamco here in the UK, who will be sending me Vol. 5 at the end on this month. Vol. 6 (Webley Rifles) is being proof read at present and Wal Winfer is currently writing a book on Rook and Rabbit Rifles.

It's marvelous what you can afford to buy when you give up smoking. lol.

Harry


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Colin Greenwood served for five years in the Coldstream Guards and then twenty five years in the British Police retiring as a Superintendent.
He edited the British Guns Review magazine.
He also gave evidence in criminal cases as a forensic firearms examiner.
I had this book as a present for Christmas and its well worth what ever you have to pay for it.
Regards, Roly.

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Originally Posted By: Harry Eales
Hello DD,
Thanks for the tip, I did try abebooks myself as I buy a lot of books through them but my search turned none of Winfers books up, however,
I already have vol. 1 in transit from the USA. Vols 2,3 and 4 were delivered yesterday from Kynamco here in the UK, who will be sending me Vol. 5 at the end on this month. Vol. 6 (Webley Rifles) is being proof read at present and Wal Winfer is currently writing a book on Rook and Rabbit Rifles.

It's marvelous what you can afford to buy when you give up smoking. lol.

Harry


Harry, it's all in the search technique some times. If you put in an authors full name and book title you often won't get all the hits. If you put in part of the Authors name and keyword you will often get more hits. It's all in how the bookseller enters the book in the database.

I'll be watching for Webleys. I have read each of the others cover to cover. While some of the dicussion about fuction and operation of some rifle action that I have never seen and never will see is a bit dry, the history of the industry during the time is fasinating.

Two gunmakers I would like to see him write on, Braendlin and Francotte.

Francotte is generally considered a Belgium gunmaker, but as Winfer mentions in his books Francotte was a major supplier and influence in the Brirish gun market in the Victorian era, even having a shop in London. The Francotte detachable action is Francotte's hallmark and has been used by all the big names. While in SA I shot a Jeffery's 577 Snider of the Francotte pattern, very beautiful inaccurate rifle.

I don't know of any single shot designs by Breandlin but I can only wonder how many famous maker designs were final production by Breandlin.

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Hello DD,

I do vary my search techniques on abebooks.com and indeed on other websites. As you say, it's how the bookseller enters the data.

Nearly forty years ago when I bought Roy Dunlap's book on Gunsmithing, I noted that he obtained Farquharson Actions from Belgium, although he didn't state who actually made them.

It would be nice, if whoever it was that made them in Belgium, would turn out a few hundred of them today. If reasonable priced, they would soon find a ready market.

I wonder if we could persuade our mutual internet friend Gert to make some enquiries to see if anyone still has the plans in Belgium.

When talking to Kynamco earlier this week, it was mentioned that they had a proof copy of Wal Winfer's Webley Rifles book, for checking details on the ammunition, sooooooo, it shouldn't be too long before Volume 6 appears.

Harry


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