doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Etched damascus on a 1913 Flues

A friend of mine has a Parker with reaL Damascus barrels that have been etched. Not to represent Damascus but to enhance it. The gun belonged to his father and I presume the etching was done at the factory. It was a beautiful gun. I don't remember the grade.

Faux Twist - a 'plain iron' barrel with rolled "Twist" pattern



"Damascene" - c. 1800 Ottoman barrel with roll-engraved crolle pattern. (Damascene may also be inlay)



c. 1880s Manufacture Liégeoise d’armes à Feu catalog listing Faux Damas Anglais and Rubans or Twist



Crolle pattern rolled onto Plain Iron barrels



The give away is the symmetry of the pattern. Each scroll looks just like the corresponding scroll on the other barrel. And no contrast in the color.

Acid etched Twist



Acid etched 'Turkish' crolle



Etched Two Iron Damascus - Twist

The majority of Belgian makers considered it a type of fraud. They petitioned vigorously to have laws enacted to short circuit the process. A law was enacted that basically stated only Damascus barrels could be so marked. Anything that was not damascus, twist, laminate, etc could not make the claim.

Again. NONE of the major US makers used faux damascus. Why should they when genuine Belgian twist aka laminate was so cheap? Destry astutely observed a Sears imported low end gun. On their own guns, Sears never used faux damascus.

Now having said this. There were at least 3 American patents filed to create various types of faux damascus. Rose 1862, Sachs 1889, Warner 1916 Both Rose and Sachs were before the Belgian outcry about faux damascus. There is no indication that either was ever used in production. Warner was an act of desperation during WWI. No barrels were reaching America. There are actually some records of American makers telling potential buyers they can not fulfill orders for Damascus. Warner's patent is interesting because it is essentially what many people do today with full length inserts. Again, no record of this ever going into production.

Pete

Jim,

This was a very common method of finishing. It is most often seen on Germanic guns. Apparently it did not appeal to Americans then. Instead of sulfuric acid, they used hydrochloric to achieve that deep etching. Today, most refinishers use ferric chloride. Early Persian makers used a form of Nitric acid.

Here is an early example from Champlin Arms.


Pete

At one time, in the last quarter of the 19th century, a cosmetic treatment of barrels was done by Schilling in Germany and one rifle maker in England. Name slips my mind.
These barrels were true Damascus and then chemically etched to bring out the pattern.

Go here to see a fine example from Schilling.
http://www.worldpath.net/~jmann/Schilling%2094779%20016.jpg

It does not surprise me to see another example from a maker with the same idea or an example that was later done either by or for a gun owner.

What does surprise me is that a competent gunsmith would not know this and continues this old tale that is so in error.

Best,
John

PS--I see, missed before, that the Suhl gun that I once owned, has been posted. I can assure all that this was not faux Damascus. The barrels were made by Schilling and so marked, leaving no doubt.

I believe Rigby is the rifle maker you were talking about. I saw at the Ohio Gun Collectors meeting back in the middle 70"s a Rising Bite Rigby shotgun that had etched barrels that was owned by Gary Herman from the old Safari Outfitters. Probably the most impressive set of damascus barrels I ever saw. How many of you remember the rifles and shotguns that Gary Herman imported into the U S in the early 70's?

The barrels on your Ithaca are damascus. Terry

In 50 plus years of collecting, the only steel barrels that I have ever seen with an apparent damascus type/twist pattern was a grade G13 Greener that had Greener,s Solid-Weldless, Twist barrels.

Another Two Iron Damascus-Twist barrel Roy. A not uncommon pattern in German/Austrian guns



This is another form of Damascus-Twist, a One Iron Crolle-Twist laminate also called London, Baker "Best London Damascus Twist" and "Barber's Pole." Very similar pattern barrels found on LC Smith Maker Baker, H grade Lefever, and Baker Gun & Forging guns.



H. Pieper