doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com LITTLE SKEETERS

I found some 12 to 28 ga. Little Skeeter chamber inserts I forgot I had. I ground and angle on the leading edge and they fit perfectly in a 2 1/2" chamber. A 28 ga. shell dropped in nicely and the gun closed properly. The gun is nito proved for 3 ton which I understand translates to 6,720 PSI. According to my Hodgdon book the 28 ga. shell generates 10,800 PSI. I was afraid to try it. Will the chamber insert absorb the extra pressure? Once the shot charge leaves the insert will the 12 ga. bore diameter reduce the pressure down the barrel to a safe PSI? What do you think?

I have been doing it for a while, without giving it much thought, so far nothing has let go......

i always thought 3 tons per square box (sq. inch) under imperial measurement was analogous to 900kg/sq.cm proof under the si for guns with 65mm chambers and 3&1/4t/"sq or 900kg/sq.cm for those having 70mm chambers.
prior to '89 76mm chambered guns were proofed to 3&1/2t/inch sq. or 1200kg/sq.cm.
theoretically one can shoot 65mm lead cartridges up to 1&3/16oz in three toner (it's probably old so i would stick to 1oz cip rated shells), but i would not put some american gizmo in english gun and shoot 28bore cartridges through it because that isn't cartridge for which this gun was intended. i'm sure there is a warning on box flap of those 28ga cartridges so their ass is covered and you're doing this at YOUR OWN RISK.

I never understood why anyone would want to carry a 12 bore that weighs 6 - 7lbs and then shoot 28ga in it. Sell the 12 and buy a 28.

The 6700 psi crusher rating gets close to 9000 psi on the pizeo pressure measurement system. Yes, the Skeeters will absorb most, if not all, of the breech pressure. And, yes, the expansion of the barrel will reduce the pressure a lot. So, if the gun is in shape for 2 1/2" CIP 12's, it ought to be fine with the 28's in Skeeters.

A clear answer with guts! Well done Rocketman!
bill

Actually Mike, I already have a 28, 2 of em. Sometimes a guy just feels like shooting 28's in a 12.....Might be a Kansas thing...

LD I was born in Atchison, never heard of such a thing.LOL

Thank you Rocketman. Sounds good to me. Mr. Harrell, I just received my RBL 28 and I already had two others. The object of the exercise is to find some way of shooting skeet and sporting clays with the old gun without the need to acquire special 12 ga. 2 1/2" loads, although I'm working on that too.
The conversion of British Long Tons to regular PSI is confusing to me. I assumed the 6,720 PSI to err on the safe side.
Thanks again.

RGH;
The conversion of British long tons to lbs is simply Tons x 2240lbs. This of course gives you the 6720lbs for 3 tons. The fly in the ointment here is the 3 tons is in reality "Crusher Pressure" which is not absolute pressure per square inch. Pressure as taken with a pizoelectric crystal is assumed to be exact. For "British" tons a formula has been given which is (crusher tons x 1½) - ½ = PE tons, thus (3 x 1½) 4½ - ½ = 4. Then 4 x 2240 = 8960 psi. This formula was derived from a pressure bbl having crushers mounted on one side & PE gages on the other at exact same distance (1.000") from breech & recording simultaneous readings from the same shot. It was said to have been adequately correct for pressures within normal shotshell ranges. The problem thus is not one of converting tons to lbs, but one of converting crusher pressure to psi.

Do any of you gentlemen have trouble getting the empty hulls out of the little skeeters? I have a few friends who don't care for them for that reason.

I had a pair of Little Skeeters I used once, I fired two shots at station one in Skeet. That was about 3 or 4 years ago, the empty shells are still in the Little Skeeters,I could never get them out.
Pete

Thank you 2-Piper, I'm beginning to get the idea. Adding this to what Rocketman said suggests that my 10,800 PSI 28 ga. loads are not that far beyond the working pressure of my gun.

Thanks again to all.

I believe there is another company who makes these. My buddies don't have as much trouble with them as they do with the Little Skeeters. But I can't remember the name of them. I always thought they would be nice to have, because I like a bigger, heavier gun when I shoot targets. Smaller guns seem too whippy. They do create a problem of kicking a gun over to the second barrel with an over/under. That is one drawback. I have one buddy who has to continually keep bumping the butt of his gun on the ground when we shoot skeet when he uses his. But I never have bought any. Maybe I will try them one day. Good luck with getting those hulls out in yours. Best wishes

can't help myself - does anyone see anything wrong with that picture?

I have been shooting my own low-pressure 12 gauge #7625 reloads in a Damascus 10 gauge Baker hammerless using steel Gauge-Mates -which are similar to the skeeters.

I've wondered how much the pressure is reduced by firing 12's in 10 bore? Has anyone ever published any legitimate test data on this?
JERRY

I sure as hell can! I can see this fool bumping the butt on the ground with a live round in the second barrel. If I'm seeing the picture correctly, that's bloody stupid, dangerous and I would not be on the same field with him.

My set of little skeeters in 28 are half of a problem, One preforms perfect, the other locks the shell into it. It has a noticeable ridge just above the shell rim that locks the hull in. I have polished it until I am blue. The mfgr made it difficult to return.
bill

OK. What did I say wrong?

If you don't see anything wrong or dangerous about bumping the butt of a loaded shotgun, safety off, loaded shell in the second barrel, you need some serious safety training.

Is the crusher we are referring to here either a lead or copper pellet, or is only one of these used to measure shotgun pressures? Are L.U.P. and C.U.P. measurements of the same level, say for example 7500, equal in piezoelectric or p.s.i. readings, or is there a differece between those two units of pressure measurement? I guess what I'm getting at is when folks here say that a 7000 psi load is safe in a certain Damascus barrel, is this copper crusher, lead crusher, p.s.i., or what?

It is PE measured psi, the most common unit now in use. LUP (based on lead crushers) and CUP (based on copper crushers) were in near universal use before PE and strain gauges became readily available. Lead is used for lower pressures and copper for higher. The trick was to match the crusher materials compressive strength to the pressure range anticipated. If the crushed was not significantly deformed, it was difficult to measure accurately. If overly deformed, it became inaccurate. Crushers can measure only peak pressure they are exposed to; a chamber mounted crusher will measure chamber peak pressure and a barrel mounted crusher will measure barrel peak pressure. PE and strain gauge measure near instantanious and can deliver time based curves of pressure build-up and decay. Crusher pellets must be made extreamly accurately or they have no value. Used to be that cartridge loaders bought certified crusher pellets in large volume.

PE and strain gauge readings will depend on the accuracy of system calibration. Crushers depended on the accuracy of the crusher pellet and the accuracy of the measurement of deformation. Crusher and electronic psi are not in strict agreement. 2-p gave a simple and effective conversion of LUP to PE psi.

I have found removing light loads from my 10-12 Skeeters, not a problem. But the other day, I shot 2 3" magnum # 4 Buck loads using them.....Big problem took several days of soaking and application of a drift using a ball pean hammer to get them out.........

One further note on the above formula. This formula was devised in England. I have absolutely nothing to confirm it could be used for US pressures IE I have nothing to confirme a load which recorded 3 tons under the British systemn would in fact record 6720 LUP in a US pressure gun. R'Mans very good post shows the problems that could be encountered. These crusher pressure measurements served a most needed purpose in their day, but were at that time usually listed as "PSI". I do not recall for certain when the terms LUP & CUP began to be widely used, but care must be used in interpreting older pressure listings as to what was actually meant. Actual true PSI will always be equal to or higher than a crusher pressure, never lower.