doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 20 gauge pigeon guns???

While this may not explain all of the 20 ga.guns that appear to have been made for pigeon shooting,I will attach a portion of
Page 74 of "The Heyday of the Shotgun" by David baker.It comments on the practice in England of also trapping and using sparrows and starlings as live trap targets.I have also read references to
"Lancashire Sparrow Guns" which appear to have been long barreled,heavily choked 20 bores of around 7 lbs.I have seen a few and currently own one by Thomas Horsley.A 20 bore bar-in wood hammergun with 30" heavily choked barrels and weighing about 7 lbs.It was built for the Marquis of Abergavenny,who apparently was an enthusiastic live pigeon shot. It appears that 20's were a requirement for this version of the sport and it was popular in the North of England where some serious wagering took place behind the local watering hole. Maybe some of our Anglo friends can comment
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OWD, There were/are several high end duck clubs in California that require/required the use of 20 ga. guns by their members.Our Parker friends are well aware of the heavy,long barreled guns that were used in that area in the early 1900's.Some with 3" chambers. I would assume that the decision of whether or not to have a safety was that of the buyer.

A friend recently sold a Parker #3 frame 12 gauge with no safety. I'd say that was definitely a fowling piece and not a pigeon gun.

I'm not saying live pigeons were never shot with 20 gauge guns. I'm sure it happened and happened often back in the day. Ladies, young shooters, and men that liked a 20 bore probably did it. I'm saying that they weren't used in serious competition amongst men who shot pigeons as a near religion back in the day or now either one.

I've read of some sparrow shooting matches here in the US as well. The ring owner down in Indiana used to do a starling match every year though I never did get to shoot in it. He'd cannon net them on a big horse farm where they gathered in huge flocks to feed on waste grain.


Destry

I bought an LC Smith,12 bore, 30 inch, Ideal Grade, 3 inch chambers, in the bay area years ago. It had no safety. I always assumed it was a waterfowler.

I think there may be some merit to the waterfowling idea.

Didn't Nash Buckingham use a safety-less Fox on ducks?

Maybe the safety-less waterfowler was popular with guys.


OWD

In the Olympics of 1900 livepigeon shooting was actually one of the events. Some sources say it was an unofficial event, but nontheless it was held at the Olympics.

http://www.topendsports.com/events/discontinued/pigeonshooting.htm

Hack

I enjoy trying to figure out stuff as much as anyone, but this is an issue for which there is no real answer. In this example, Parker built over 240,000 guns - so statistically it's not unusual to find that some were ordered without a safety and with long barrels. It's the same reason you'll see 8 billion red Camaro's and one in pink. Every so often someone walks in an orders something screwy.

I'm sure even back then there were 'catalog surfers' - guys who had a catalog and ordered strange combinations just because they could.

Just for grins find a ZZ-bird ring somewhere. It's plastic pigeons without PETA. For those who have tried both, ZZ's are MORE difficult and the rules are the same. No one that I know has ever even contemplated shooting ZZ's with a 20.

My bet is that they are fowlers. Fox even made some HE's configured like that.

GregSY-

Of course, our discussion "proves" nothing

It does broaden our understanding of how these guns were used 70, 80, or 100+ years ago.

It challenges some assumptions, too. From now on, you'll think twice about any safety-less 20 gauges you see labeled pigeon guns.

All of this is a big part of what I enjoy about this board.

Thanks to everyone for their responses.

Now somebody invite me to a pigeon shoot.

I'm always willing to drive to the Philadelphia area to see it done right...hint...hint....

OWD

BTW: Rocketman, not to be flip, but winning is a lot more fun than losing - even if you're burdened by excess cash flow.