doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 20 gauge pigeon guns???

It's takes excess cash flow to play the game. Just the basic match fees are about $500/day, if you play all of the options it's closer to $1000/day, not counting what you might wish to wager in the Calcutta's. I've never seen anybody play that didn't want to win regardless of their financial status.

Having said that most places will let you come as a guest for $35.00 or so. There is free food all day (at least where I've been) and free drinks in the evening. The last one I went to my lunch was grilled grouper steaks and fried soft shell crabs. You can also buy practice tickets - last years price was $35.00 for five birds. There will be a lot of inexpensive games to play, "miss & out", ten bird races, etc.

You also normally get to see some fabulous guns. I have seen a husband & wife with a matching pair of Fabbri's, Purdey's and a host of others.

This may not be universal, but at the matches I've seen Perazzi's were the dominant weapon of choice, with Belgian Brownings probably being the second choice, if not close to it.

Hack

This may not be universal, but at the matches I've seen Perazzi's were the dominant weapon of choice, with Belgian Brownings probably being the second choice, if not close to it.


That seems to have been the case when I was around a few columbaire shoots about 25 years ago.

Clearly not the atmosphere of the formal box pigeons that Hack just described, but I had a chance back in the 90's to shoot pigeons from what was termed a pigeon 'cannon'. Have any of you others heard of this, or shot from one?

This was being promoted here in western Montana by a fellow that owned the 'cannon'....in reality, the mother of all manual clay traps that looked much like one of the early Lincoln brand traps we would see on the SC courses - only much bigger. To the throwing arm was attached a 2-1/2 ft. length of PVC pipe with roughly a 3+" inside diameter. The live pigeon was dusted with talc and inserted in the cocked tube. This trap was well bunkered in just eight yards in front of the shooter, so the trap operator was out of harm's way. The trapper also had the ability to slightly alter the lateral angle of the bird's initial departure. The fenced field was a semi-circle at 40 yds. out from the trap bunker.

Upon the call of 'pull', the pigeon actually was ejected at such force that the bird's wings couldn't open until at least 15 yards from the trap, travelling like a bullet, and moving sooo fast that even the very quickest shooters could not kill them in that distance. In just about every case the bird would deploy its wings before the shot could be taken, and immediately break off on some crazy series of angles......maybe like the hand-thrown Columbaire shooting for all I know.

Being eight yards away from the launch point doesn't sound like much, but there were a number of experienced pigeon shooters asking if it couldn't be shortened up to six yards. It wasn't done. All-in-all, it made for some very tough shooting as the scores reflected, and I've never seen or heard of it again, once this fellow with the trap gave it up.

As for the small-bore guns, I came into possession last year of a DHE Parker 16 gauge, No. 1 frame, made in 1929 for the wife of an avid southern CA duck hunter; built with 32" tubes choked tight and tighter with 3" chambers. Sometime later, a set of 32" Parker 20 ga. barrels were added and numbered to the gun, those also being 32" full and full. This gun did originally come with the tang safety, Silvers pad, and a finished weight of 7-1/4 lbs. .......which one might expect for a 'fowler' being used by a woman. Like someone here pointed out, I could see this gun being configured just as easily with no top safety - relying instead on just good gun handling from the blind.

FWIW, the 20 ga. tubes both throw a very narrow 5" spread at a measured 30 ft. and well within the 30" circle at 40 yards, barring a 'flyer' or two. The 16 ga. set almost as snug. In short, not your ideal grouse gun unless you are a much better shot than I.

All Best,

Rob

About 20 years ago in Mexico (Cabo San Lucas), I shot pigeons where they used these devices to launch pigeons. I don't remember the distance from the shooter, but I do remember that it was very challenging, especially if there was any kind of wind blowing.

I have shot pigeons using that device, and it was pretty wild. It really got wild when they tried quail instead of pigeons.

My impression was that the "catapult" was to simulate Columbaire, but that might just be me.

Hack

I think the mark has possibly been missed on terminology def & intended use in this thread.

It is my belief that these guns were much more what today I would call a 'dove shooter', i.e., a tightly bored 20 with some weight [6.5~7.5#] and that the term as it is now being grasped is rather misleading and therin lies the confusion. Older classic 20's used here in the states were likely used to shoot passenger pigeons and so in that context they certainly could have been ref'd as pigeon guns. Today the same kind of gun may be used effectively in S. America where there is opportunity for considerable shooting and where such a gun is a very good to ideal choice. The addition of a safety, particularly an automatic one, simply would serve to slow down the rate of fire. Pass shooting was the norm from what I have read on the subject. If memory serves, somewhere I read that the last known living passenger pigeon passed in Cincinatti, OH in 1920. It lived at the zoo.

In England the same types of guns may have been preferred for wood pigeons by some for pass shooting or even decoyed birds, but I will defer to smallbore & others here who have actual experience about those guns and hunting the warry wood pigeon.

I do not think it likely that any of these guns was used in the competitive race sense, be it boxed birds or hand thrown, nor would they have been ordered for that purpose. Oh, perhaps some damsel [or gentlman with shoulder/recoil problems] has used a 20 by choice, but all of the many competitive flyer shooters I have seen have used 12's. The use of a 20 in flyer competition would have to qualify as an anomoly, and certainly not by anyone actually contesting a race.

Collumnbare [hand thrown], chokes are often quite open in the first bbl.

Just some thots & observations. Have enjoyed reading the thread. Good sport to all of you this season, be it clays, collecting, or game.

Kind regards, tw

Somehow, I posted twice so I am removing the duplicate. My apology.

Kind regards, tw

ps: terminology; 'catapult' same thing as 'air cannon', not the same as collumnbare. Usually no boundry line and races are miss & out.

You're absolutely wrong about most of these hammerless guns without safetys being used on Passenger Pigeons. Those birds were essentially gone by 1885, most them them would have been shot with hammer guns.

Last known wild bird was shot in 1900, the last known bird died in the Cincinnati Zoo in 1914.

I still think it was wrong to shoot that last pigeon, seein's how it was in cage and all.

When I have shot in Italy most of the guns are 26" with some of the hardest nickle shot I have ever seen. The rings were a little smaller. Seems the Perazzi is boss in my area with K guns and Browning splitting the difference. You get a few Parkers and 21's with the one lone ranger bringing the Beretta semi gas pipe.

I have never seen a 20ga race 12ga and 28 seems the norm today but once in Ohio they had a 410 race. Me I enjoy a moedl 21 trap choked F/F VR or a Broadway that is choked tight and tighter.