doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rookie Question

I'm with George on this one all the way. Also might mention there are differenced of importance between a Colt SAA & a double hammergun. A dropped Colt is apt to fall butt down giving the hammer a good likelyhood of being struck with the muzzle pointing "UP" at you. Also the sear notches on the Colt are extremely delicate. The long double is much less apt to land in a position which would result in the sear being broken & firing the gun & at least in the case of most re-bounding locks it would take a tremendously harder blow to fire it. One always has to consider the "Worst Possible ScenairoThe bl lug twisted or " apt to be encountered. Situations of terrain can be encountered while hunting in which it is simply "Dangerous" to navigate with a loaded gun. With any break open gun single or double, hammered or hammerless I would open the gun; remove the shell/shells; & reclose the gun before proceding. Sure in case of an accident the bbl may be dented, the stock scratched, chipped or even broken, most of these are re-pairable. The bbl lug twisted, broken or dislodged is much more complicated. Even on good terrain it is possible to trip or slip on some unseen object & fall. In this case an open gun may well "Close". I would much prefer to have a loaded & bolted gun bouncing around with the hammers down than cocked.
The choice to me is plain, when carrying a hammer gun in a situation where I feel I might "Use" it, it will be loaded, bolted & hammers "Down" untill ready to fire. Sure there may be situations where in effect I have a Single, but if unwilling to accept that I would simply use another gun. I don't think there are many of us here who are strictly limited to having only the one gun to use.

FWIW, you may find some hammer guns are more amenable to having both barrels cocked simultaneously than others. I used to own a Bernardelli Italia 12 gauge that allowed me to cock both hammers after calling for the bird in skeet doubles. The hammer springs were light enough that cocking wasn't a problem, but heavy enough that there was never a failure to fire from a light blow to a primer. I had similar success with the gun on preserve pheasants over pointers, before I so foolishly sold the gun.

On the other hand, I now own a lovely 16 gauge Ferlach made (Ecker is the name on the gun) hammer gun that has much heavier springs. Even with the narrower frame and spacing between the hammers, I can't cock both simultaneously without real work. The springs are a good deal heavier than they were on the Bernardelli. There's no way I could cock both on the bird's rise in the field. I use it as a dove gun, as I'm neither moving nor (in most cases) surprised by the bird's coming into range.

My I. Hollis 10 gauge hammer gun is just a bit too wide for my hands (which are fairly small) to allow me to cock both simultaneously, although I suspect a larger set of hands could pull it off.

My suggestion to you is to try a number of different hammer guns if you want one on which you can cock both hammers simultaneously. Given some time and enough samples, you'll find one that fits you and that will allow you to do so. Doesn't solve your current problem, but if there's no special attachment to this particular hammer gun, trade it for one that will let you do what you want when you find it.

I am sorry that I come to this discussion rather late and I hope that I don't digress too much but consider the following:
The posts seem to concentrate a great deal on safety and so they should. Having read everything through quickly I may have missed it but I don't think anybody has mentioned 'rebounding locks'. Of course these are not universal in hammerguns but I would guess that 90% of breech loader h'guns in use today are so equipped.
For those not technically familiar with rebounding locks, they are usually credited with allowing the gun to be opened, and closed when reloaded, without lifting the hammers to half cock.
This is of course true but the system also acts like an intercepting sear on the tumbler when the trigger sear is disengaged with the main bent without the trigger being pulled.
This exact 'double bent' system can be seen on many modern O/U's and is usually heralded as a worthwhile safety feature.
It must be admitted that I have seen more than a couple of h'guns where the rebounding is not properly functioning.
Either the hammer comes to rest against the striker (in the rebounding position), far forward enough to cause the striker to protrude from the breech face: extremely dangerous and arguably not functioning at all as it should be;
Or the hammer takes up the correct clearance from the striker but can be pushed through the rebounding position to push the striker forward (without pulling the trigger). This is obviously a failure in the 'intercepting sear' part of its operation.
The former usually indicates wear in either the tail of the 'captive' leg of the mainspring where it connects with the tumbler toe and bounces it back to its rebounding position or the tumbler toe itself.
The latter usually indicates that the 'half cock' bent is worn and does not 'capture' the sear nose correctly.
I would argue that a hammergun fitted with correctly functioning trigger blocking safety and Stanton patent rebounding locks is as safe as any gun that isn't unloaded!
At the end of the day, 'muzzle awareness' as our BASC puts it, is everything and as Greener said, 'the only safe gun is an unloaded one'.

I am sorry that I come to this discussion rather late and I hope that I don't digress too much but consider the following:
The posts seem to concentrate a great deal on safety and so they should. Having read everything through quickly I may have missed it but I don't think anybody has mentioned 'rebounding locks'. Of course these are not universal in hammerguns but I would guess that 90% of breech loader h'guns in use today are so equipped.
For those not technically familiar with rebounding locks, they are usually credited with allowing the gun to be opened, and closed when reloaded, without lifting the hammers to half cock.
This is of course true but the system also acts like an intercepting sear on the tumbler when the trigger sear is disengaged with the main bent without the trigger being pulled.
This exact 'double bent' system can be seen on many modern O/U's and is usually heralded as a worthwhile safety feature.
It must be admitted that I have seen more than a couple of h'guns where the rebounding is not properly functioning.
Either the hammer comes to rest against the striker (in the rebounding position), far forward enough to cause the striker to protrude from the breech face: extremely dangerous and arguably not functioning at all as it should be;
Or the hammer takes up the correct clearance from the striker but can be pushed through the rebounding position to push the striker forward (without pulling the trigger). This is obviously a failure in the 'intercepting sear' part of its operation.
The former usually indicates wear in either the tail of the 'captive' leg of the mainspring where it connects with the tumbler toe and bounces it back to its rebounding position or the tumbler toe itself.
The latter usually indicates that the 'half cock' bent is worn and does not 'capture' the sear nose correctly.
I would argue that a hammergun fitted with correctly functioning trigger blocking safety and Stanton patent rebounding locks is as safe as any gun that isn't unloaded!
At the end of the day, 'muzzle awareness' as our BASC puts it, is everything and as Greener said, 'the only safe gun is an unloaded one'.

One difference between a Colt SAA and a shotgun is that when carried in the "field", the Colt is quite likely to be in a holster; the shotgun between one's hands. Thus, in a stumble, unless you land on your holster leg, the Colt itself won't actually contact the ground. And unless you're also carring a long gun in your hands, you have your hands to break the fall. The best you can do with a shotgun, unless you toss it out of the way as you fall, is to let go with one hand (preferably your trigger hand) and use it to break your fall.

Most of my stumbles with shotguns take place in the grouse woods, and in those circumstances, I'm doing my best to protect the gun. In one case, I did a great job of protecting the gun but ended up with a broken rib as a result. However, insurance covered the rib . . .

I would respectively disagree, there are hunting situations where a hammergun cannot be used safely!!!!

Would you describe those situations please, because I can't think of any myself.

I think some people rely too much on safeties. If the safety prevented an accident something else was done wrong.

Years ago I learned a good lesson on the reliability of safeties. I had a pre-WWI commercial Mauser. It had the wing style safety that actually blocks the striker, probably the safest type of safety and much better the the trigger blocks most shotguns use. One day while shooting I flipped the safety off and the gun discharged. Having an 8mm go off while basically holding it with 1 hand leaves an impression on you. Fortunately it was pointed in a safe direction. Took it to a gunsmith and he could find nothing wrong, most likely the sear hung up.

Dave,
Bird hunting without a dog in moderate to heavy brush.

A hammergun would not be my choice in the thick brush without a dog, but if you carried it uncocked, how would it be less safe than any other gun? You (or at least I) would be limited to one shot on a surprise bird because of the difficulty of getting both hammers back at a flush. That doesn't make it less safe though as far as I can see...Geo