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Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,010
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Most Online1,131 Jan 21st, 2024
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 194 |
I have been offered this gun, 70% condition, for $700. After checking around it looks like a sleeve job will be around $1800. Will this be a $2500. gun when done? What to do? Any one have any ideas?
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,567 Likes: 79 |
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 450
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 450 |
Far easier and cheaper to find a second set of barrels and have them fit to the gun. Still will end up with a mismatched serialnumbered gun that will be a nice shooter. Original condition is gone forever and nothing will bring that back. So start thinking in terms of making the gun into a nice shooter because that is all it can ever be from this point on.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
Jerry, I'm in agreement that the gun will not end up to be worth anywhere near $2500. However, if you can do the work yourself, it would be worthwhile. I can do this work and find this gun attractive for the price. Let me know if you would like to pass this deal along to me.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730 |
I'm getting uncomfortable with the numbers of Fox guns passing through this site (and, others) in freshly "blown up" condition, frames and/or barrels. What the heck are folks doing with them? I had always thought that a Fox had a lot going for it, as long as one could get used to the idea it would end up striker bound at some point and need the services of a good 'smith. Folks seem to accept the idea their model 21s will likely pop a rib someday, or their Elsie will need it's stock attended to, and love those guns, so the concept isn't without precedent, but, I have grown fond of my fingers and eyes, middle aged as they are.
Tampered with bores and bore obstructions aside, is there something that is leading to the rash of broken Foxes? Just curious. Best, Ted
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 551
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 551 |
I have 2 fox shotguns, bought one from a guy that was shooting 3inch shell thru it..not every one has common sense...
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 450
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,693 Likes: 450 |
Ted,
Figure that 95% of shot gun owners are sane, safe people who do not use or abuse their guns in a unsafe manner. That leaves 5% who do not. They are either stupid, poorly informed, unwilling to use what we consider common sense or reasonable precautions or just unlucky enough to have a gun fail because of ammo problems, bore obstructions or just age/fatigue of their guns. It is from this group most of the failures that we see come.
Seeing the results of a few of them does not suprise me. In fact I have to say that I suspect that many are just keep a secret as most people hate to admit that they screwed up and did anything that might be thought of as stupid.
I suspect that if Wally-Worlds' shells ran about 7,000 psi instead of 10-11,000, that most of the failures we see would go away. Modern shells, shot in gun not designed for them, with a 75 year accumulation of bad gunsmithing is a disaster waiting to happen.
Funny that you have not heard of any Ithaca NID or Winchester M-21 having problems. They are the only two real "modern" designed gun that many of us shoot. I would never drop a couple Wally World shells into one of my Lefevers. I, like you, have grown quite attached to my fingers. Plus it would be such a waste of a nice Lefever.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,245 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,245 Likes: 4 |
On the 21 "likely popping a rib some day". Is that fact or a wives tale? I have 4 of these guns, shoot them a lot with modern ammo, and haven't had a problem with a rib or anything else for that matter. Has anyone here on this site had a 21 with a popped rib? Silvers
I AM SILVERS, NOT SLIVER = two different members. I'm in the northeast, the other member is in MT.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730 |
The 21s pop ribs on occasion for good reason-the steel the tubes are made from feature a goodly amount of chromium, and that makes the job of soldering ribs difficult, as the steel is difficult to wet. It is not a wives tale, and was mentioned in a letter John Olin sent to a customer pertaining to the forend loop coming loose on his gun. Are all 21s going to pop a rib? Doubtful. Do 21s suffer popped ribs as often or more than other gun designs from the same era? Without question. Best, Ted
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 236
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 236 |
After all the years i worked on doubles i noticed most blown bbls happen around the halfway point, just ahead of the forearm where pressure should have dropped by 60%. Most bbls mike out an average of .030 of an inch inwall thickness. The bores on most of these older double bbles. are tighter than todays standard. The old paper case was much thicker than plastic therefore the projectile (for lack of a better discription) was smaller in dia.than a plastic case with a shot cup that is bigger in dia. Couple that with increased pressure and older work hardened steel its no wonder we see these things happening. This is just my oppinion. Its always supprising to people who see a bbl. blown out almost flat, they cant believe how wide it is . Almost as wide as there eyes when it happens. I think if i had a high grade older double i would only use the older style European shells. Rich
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