doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Crown Steel Tubes

Looks like J.G. Riga tried to also dance with the port appraiser:
http://books.google.com/books?id=9Xs4AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA783&dq=U.S.+vs.+riga+on+barrels&lr= .

And there was some exception to the law/rule for scattergun tubes in the 1890 tariffs(See "Court & Treasury Decisions" on the lower portion of the page):
http://books.google.com/books?id=M1UrAAA...barrels&lr=

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Who is Drew Hause???? I thought your alias was revdocdrew? Anyway are you firm on the 1906 date for the tubes? I was wondering if they were about 5 to 6 years later? Circa WWI, or prior to as per this Chrome-Nickel auto of 1912, http://books.google.com/books?id=P_waAAA...l+steel&lr= , The Crucible Steel Company of America was making chrome-nickel(chromium & nickel) steel. So that big "C" just might be for chrome-nickel steel if the dates match. Chrome-nickel steel patent, reissue of the 1930s:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=fAdAAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here's Riga in his own words to the ways and means committee on tarrifs in 1913:
http://books.google.com/books?id=BCIuAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA5979&dq=A.H.+Fox+gun+barrels&lr= .

By the way, was A.H. Fox making rifle barrels for Germany, ordering barrels from Germany for a Mauser?(It was for Serbia, retracted and then for the Russian and I finally found it here from 1921: http://books.google.com/books?id=O_4sAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA415&dq=mauser+rifle+and+a.h.+fox , and I think a similar quote is contained in one of McIntosh's books). I've seen info that suggest that they ordered say 1/2 million at one time. Was this the German connection for the Krupp tubes?

This isn't the ref. I say but is along the same lines in 1918:
http://books.google.com/books?id=seIRAAA...n+rifle+barrels

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Who is Drew Hause???? I thought your alias was revdocdrew?
Figured if I started using my real name everyone would forget all the dumb things that revdoc fella said



Anyway are you firm on the 1906 date for the tubes?
Yes, the serial number puts the DOM at 1906.

Raimey,
Thank you for posting these links. I find them very interesting!

Mr. Snyder:

You are most welcome and this is a venue where I can sort of keep tract of what I've found. I hope we find some info or draw some conclusion on the types of tube steel. I really didn't intend to get side tracked on American steel but Krupp Nickel led me to either Sanderson or Crucible Steel Company of America and here we are. A neat diversion.

"Brand for tool steel, “Crown.”(Formerly operated by the Crown and Cumberland Steel Company)." - http://books.google.com/books?id=fS4qAAA...aryland&lr= . For now I thik this to be the source of our evasive "Crown" tube steel.

The Crown and Cumberland Steel Works, near the main line of the Baltimore and Ohio Railway, were built by local capitalists in 1872. The manufacture of tools and spring steel of superior quality is an extensive part of this business. The iron is procured in bar form and melted. Rollers of various sizes and an enormous steel hammer, with a striking force of five tons, are included in the equipment of the works. The peculiar qualities already noted of the Cumberland coal render it of especial value in the making of steel. About seventy men are employed by this company. The capacity of the works is ten tons of steel daily. - I can source it if need be.

And of course Crown & Cumberland, along with Sanderson, was folded under the Crucible Steel Works umbrella circa July 1901:
http://books.google.com/books?id=wS45AAA...America&lr= .

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Thank you so much for the link to Munitions Manufacture in the Philadelphia Ordnance District. Great reference for the editor of the A. H. Fox Collectors Association newsletter!

Dave

With pleasure Dave and that's yet another publication, along with Parker & L.C. Smith publications, to which I need to subscribe.


J.C. Fischer of Schaffhausen, Switzerland, looks to have been the 1st to acknowledge/discover the nickel alloy. He noticed Turkish damascened swords in a museum in Vienna(quote - "In 1824 the Swiss metallurgist JC Fischer, who was visiting his son in Vienna,
saw an exhibition of meteorites at the Imperial Museum of Natural History" ) and figured that a nickel steel was the key. He had nickel steel ingots at the 1851 Exhibit.

“Fischer made his steel nickel alloy, or meteor steel, by melting a mixture of 12 kilograms of cast steel, 248 grams of ‘meteor powder’(four parts of nickel and one part of silver) and 186 grains of kaolin. The alloy was polished with a mixture consisting of 20 parts of vinegar and one part of nitric acid. Domenico Donazzi wrote in 1841: “The subsequent addition of a one-hundredth part of nickel produces a fairly hard product which has very fine luster. With the help of acids a damascened effect can be secured. Such a steel has been marketed by Fischer(J.C.) of Schaffhausen under the name of “meteor steel”. The iron united with the nickel to produce a pure alloy which does not rust when exposed to the air’(Guida for gli Orrefici, Argentieri, Chincaglieri ed altri Aftefici di Metallurgia per prepare la Leghe Metalliche da usare nei diversi Lavori…(Bologna, 1841).”

John Cockerill was attempting to make steel at this same time circa 1830. J.C. Fischer and John Sanderson, of England, look to have been friends. Fischer holds patents in Lower Austria and may have assisted the jump start of Bochumer Verein .

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Mr. Snyder: this might be old hat to you.

Tarrif Hearings –1893 - http://books.google.com/books?id=D9cuAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA424&dq=ithaca+gun+imported+steel&lr=


“Ithaca Gun Company,
Ithaca, N.Y., September 14, 1893.

Sir: We desire to call your attention to a comparatively new industry in this country, that of the manufacture of sporting shotguns.
This industry is peculiar in that so large a part of the cost of the article is represented by labor, about 60 per cent being for labor per-formed in the factory and about 25 per cent for labor upon material and supplies made in our own country and used in the industry. (Gun barrels in the rough, not being made in this country, are imported duty free.)
A number of large factories are already running in this country, two more just starting, all of whom are obliged to employ the best skilled labor at great expense. These industries would be destroyed if the tariff was reduced, and we pray, therefore, that it may be left as it is, since it is now much less than the difference in the price of labor here and other countries from which sporting guns are imported.

Yours, truly,
Ithaca Gun Company”



February 12th, 1914 – I’m curious if they are referring to Schoverling, Daly & Gales?
“Statement of Mr. Thomas Hunter, of Fulton, N.Y., Rep-resenting the Hunter Arms Co. and Others.”

“The reason that was gone into so minutely in the old bill was that the foreigner shipped gun barrels into New York, partly finished gun stocks into Boston, and locks into Philadelphia and brought them together and assembled them here and avoided the specific duty. That is why the matter was covered so minutely in the last bill.”

http://books.google.com/books?id=QDkvAAA...barrels&lr=


There must have been a good bit of friction between Daly, and others who imported components, and Ithaca and the gang. Congress was considering lowering the duty to “one-third”.

“For the past year the foreign competition has been greater, as they have taken stocks from the barrels, which ca be done as easily as a man can take off his coat, and by packing the barrels in one box and guns in the other have passed them as parts, thus avoiding the specific duty.”

http://books.google.com/books?id=ulArAAA...barrels&lr=

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Having fun with the newly scanned books! Good for you.

This confirms other things I have read. The Belgians, being slick business men, managed to get a reduced tariff on their tubes. This is one of the factors that helped them sell so cheaply here.

Riga's logic is circular and does not directly address the reason for the tariff's at all. ( In fact, if you read McKinley's original speech in Congress, he was arguing to place a tariff on imported food items in order to help the American farmer. Which no tariff ever accomplished. ) But, it got him in front of Congress. I am sure that much more went on outside of the hearings. In retrospect, it all came to nought. Within 2 years of this hearing Wilson came into office and destroyed the tariff's within his first few months. Belgium was invaded and all commerical production of sporting firearms ceased until 1918.

Pete