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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,109 Likes: 91
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,109 Likes: 91 |
I have had mixed results getting good crimps when loading 3/4 oz. I use a Fed SO-12 wad and no pressure on the loading handle and follow the printed recipes. I know Clay Shooting magazine had an issue last year devoted to the lite loads. I have more confidence in the 7/8 oz. personally.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,826 Likes: 12 |
PA24 - great idea - thanks. I started shooting trap 39 yrs ago and never would have thought of anything but 1 1/8oz loads. Quit shooting untill about 8yrs ago and the wife got me back into it. After reading quite a bit about reloading I went to 1oz, then 7/8oz. I've never noticed any difference in scores, only recoil. To each his own, but I sure like the 7/8oz loads. Paul
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292 |
Bladesmith....yes, I like the 7/8oz. the best for all around, scores are high, lots of dead birds and no wear and tear on the guns or the shooter.......
Best Regards,
Doug
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 190
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 190 |
Jimmy,
Did it ever occur to you that maybe your "loose nut behind the butt" just wasn't as good as those who did the "kickin'? Unless the shooting was long-range handicap (maybe) it sounds like Mr. Walker got inside your head just a bit.
Last edited by Dingelfutz; 09/14/09 08:17 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 4 |
Are the 3/4 oz shooters using tighter chokes than with 1 oz?
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
If I expect to need "longer range" performance, yes, I am. And, that is with the understanding that effective pattern diameter will be smaller, which requires a smaller aiming error angle to score.
That said, I would do the same thing for any reduction in shot charge, reguardless of the gauge. Also, this applies to a reduction in shot count via larger shot where both the number of hits and striking energy must be kept up for lethality.
Shotguns are especially subject to the law of "no free lunch." Larger shot size is the antidote to reduced energy from reduced velocity. Increased choke effect is the antidote to reduced shot count or extended range; at the cost of reduced effective pattern diameter. More accurate aiming is the antidote to reduced pattern diameter; at the cost of more practice of better technique.
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 190
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 190 |
Stallones,
Actually, unless 3/4 oz loads are pushed extremely fast, these loads can require less choke constriction than loads that use more shot. In fact, one of the big problems with 3/4 oz loads is to get the things to open up. High velocities, open chokes, and/or soft shot are all employed to make 12 ga. 3/4 oz "open up".
Rocketman,
Has it right...up to a point. With 12 ga. target loads, the point might not be as profound as one might suppose. The issue is fairly simple mathematics. (It would have to be for a "finger adder" like me!)
Let's say that we are dealing with 80% patterns as baselines for 1 oz, 7/8 oz, and 3/4 oz loads. If hard shot is used, such pattern percentages are extremely common, especially from full-choked barrels.
0ne-ounce loads that generate 80% patterns will, theoretically, place exactly the same number of pellets in a 30-inch circle at 40 yards as a 1 1/8-ounce load that generates 71%. Empirical results tend to be consistent with this estimate. A long-yardage handicap target generally stands very little chance in a 71% 1 1/8 oz's pattern, unless the pattern is extremely "patchy" or "holey". Exactly the same claim can, therefor, be made for the patterns thrown by good-quality 1 oz loads, even when "large" (for target loads) shot is used. In fact, it is not at all uncommon for 1 oz loads to "throw" 7 1/2 shot even better than all but the best 1 1/8 os loads (possibly due to less shot deformation and/or shorter shotstrings?). Relative advantages to the 1 1/8 oz loads: More shot (than perhaps necessary) and a (false?) sense of security for shooters who remain convinced that they need "all those soldiers". Relative disadvantages to the 1 1/8 oz loads: More expense, more noise and recoil, with their negative effects on the shooter, and more difficulty obtaining pattern per centages that are equivalent to those which are more easily obtained with lighter shot charges.
Similarly, 80% patterns of 7/8 oz loads and 3/4 oz loads theoretically will yield patterns that are equivalent to approximately 62% and 60% of 1 1/8 oz loads, respectively. Again, empirical results tend to support such estimates. Such "modified choke" patterns can reach out a long way. International trap shooters, who shoot 24 gram loads, routinely break targets on second barrel shots that are taken at ranges that are pretty close to those of 27 yard line handicap trap shots. At the very least, these "mini loads" ought to be more than adequate for all but the most demanding 16-yard and doubles shots, and this would be true even before the loads were "tricked up" using lighter shot and faster velocities. The "advantages" of 1 1/8-oz loads are beginning to look pretty small, aren't they?
Oh, about "smaller patterns"; maybe not, at least as a general rule. Over 20 years ago, Don Zutz demonstrated that, at least as often as not, there are next to no differences in the diameters of modified choke and full choke patterns at 40 yards. The main differences have to do with the number of pellets in the pattern, especially in the patterns' "cores". It would seem that the need for "more accurate aiming" might be located more often between shooters' ears than it is out where the targets fly.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174 |
I have been considering another 12-bore. I regret getting rid of my AYA #2 12b. I don't reload.
What low-recoil loads with 3/4 oz. or 7/8 oz of shot would yall reccommend?
Adam
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 869 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 869 Likes: 2 |
Adam,
Alliant and Hodgdon publish alot of 7/8 oz data. I think Hodgdon developed some 3/4 oz data for the CAS shooters. Years ago I emailed both companies to ask if I could use 7/8 oz data as the basis for 3/4 oz loads. Both companies said yes. Phil Hodgdon told me that he had been doing this for his son.
I use old style AAs or any Rem hull (STS or GC). For 3/4 oz the DR pink or the WW OEM AA12L are best. For 7/8 I'm now partial to the clear Duster, though the CB AA12L clone works well.
I've had best results with Clays. I prefer it to RD, Claydot, and Promo. If you plan to use 3/4 and slow 7/8 oz loads in the cold use a primer that is at least as brissant as the Win 209. In January nothing works as well as the Fed 209A here in ME.
Sam
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292 |
Adam......since you don't reload as mentioned above....RST has four 7/8 oz. loads and one 3/4 oz. load...called their Maxi-Lite and Falcon Lite, according to their chart.....all are good loads for the non-reloader...... Their number is 570-553-2845....buy some Lites and enjoy the 'good life' more than you would imagine.....
Best Regards,
Doug
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