doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Model 12 skeet gun..............

That would be why mine has a plain barrel. Hot item in Buckeyeland? Not around here.

jack

Mike the Bear--well stated!! I have a Cutts on a first year M-37S--it is a skeet killing machine! Remember the era of "muzzle bandages." Don't need one with a Cutts.

Not quite like the Simmons rib in that turning the flange on the barrel indicates Winchester's intention to produce a Cutts-specific barrel. I doubt if any plain barrel "skeets" went to dealers without the steam whistle so it's factory even IF Lyman was a contract installer. The analogy is screw choking. Lots of aftermarket tubes in muzzles threaded by the manufacturer of the guns and lots of fixed choke guns with the "modification". The irony: the fiddled WS- guns are sought after; the "factory" SKEETS not particuarly desirable.

jack

Only way to know is to measure the chokes to see if they are WS1. If not, and is a true cylinder, then you can bet the farm on a cut barrel. If they are still WS1 it gets much more interesting as a oddity. Want to borrow my bore micrometer?

KYJon,
Not sure if that will work as the choke is essentially removed in either case since the completed barrel with the Cutts and Skeet choke is the same length as the WS-1 without the Cutts. I have both and they are the same length.

WS1 should be a .005 choke. If the barrel has no choke in the last 2-3" of the barrel it has been cut or reamed out, but why bother doing that?. If there is .005 choke in the barrel I would be say it is an original. Being 24" is not a deal killer to me for factory made. I shot a borrowed Model 12 that the factory had chrome plated for a rich shooter. Never say never, but you can say odd, until you know for sure.

If it had been say a 26" barrel that they cut to 25" to add a Cutts and then cut again to remove all traces of the Cutts to make it 24", add a rib and refinish the gun at that time I would expect it to be a true cylinder. A 24" factory WS 1 barrel would be an oddity but I know Winchester would make anything if you knew the right person and had money. My father had them make a solid rib 28 ga. model 12 for me after they had refused to make one for several years. He found the right person and got them to do it. Hunting with a fellow who had ordered two model 21's I am sure made it easier to find the right person. Wonder who ever got those guns? Wish I did.

I know what you mean. I never cared for them either. One of the best skeet shooters at our club shoots a Model 12 with a Cutts. He breaks his doubles so fast I don't know how he does it. He and another guy (who also shoots with a Cutts), along with a third guy won our winter skeet league last year. A couple of other guys shoot with Cutts on their Model 12s. I have a 16 gauge/solid rib Model 12 with knock out gorgeous wood (and the older tiny forearm) that has the old Weaver screw in choke system. I put a leather covered pad on it and guys have been begging me to sell it. One of the local dealers has a Model 12- 12 gauge barrel/forearm only with a Cutts on it with a $350.00 price tag laying on the back of a shelf in his store. If someone sees it, it won't be there long. For some reason they seem to have caught on around here the past few years.

This is pretty simple to figure out because the gun is stamped WS1.

I have never seen a genuine special order 24" M-12 barrel. But if this is "real" the bore mic will demonstrate it clearly. WS1 was a proprietary design with constriction followed by flare at the muzzle. In a 20 WS1 constriction usually amounts to about .003 or so, maybe .004. I have not measured one (20 gauge) at .005.

If the barrel was orignally 26" (most likely) there will be no flare following constriction. Indeed, there will not likely be much constriction at all.

Sam

You got it, Sam. I bet there is no flare.

Mike, think again. If a barrel with Cutts and 26" overall length has the Cutts removed, the barrel will be about 19 or 20 inches long. Measuring the bore is the only way to identify the originality of a WS1 barrel. Even so, the gun is not going to be worth the ridiculous asking price.