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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Hi again,
The gun CJO posted is the same lock up as the one I got at the Vintagers. mine doesnt have anywhere near as much engraving and is missing the cocking indicators as well.
There is a picture of one like it in the old reprint of the 1911 ALFA catalog with the indicators but no engraving.
I would love to know more about the history of the lock up, I thought it was interestig enough to buy a gun to have a sample.
Sorry Joe these are Belgian not German other than for a few years and those not willing.

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Sorry I thought Belgium was in Germany

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PeteM Offline OP
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Henri Pieper was born in 1840 to Heinrich Pieper & Elisabeth Blesse or Blaise in Soest Westphalia. Today Soest is in Germany. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soest,_Germany

Henri filed at least 69 patents. Many were filed in multiple countries. They included such diverse subjects as a lamp wick holder, incandescent bulb holder, electric gun, magazine clip, monobloc barrels, and much more.

Henri registered the Bayard trade name and mark on June 9, 1892.





In 1881 he filed the 1st patent for a monobloc, which would become his Diana shotgun.






He filed 3 patents in quick succession that dealt with lock up, they are
Feb 28 1891 - 93831;
Apr 30 1891 - 94490;
Dec 15 1891 - 96980.
The patent numbers are for Belgian patents. I do not know if any of them are for the lock up in question.

In 1892 he released the modified Diana, also a monoblock, which does not have this lock up.


Pete

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Pete a buddy of mine bought an old 20ga hardware hammer gun with barrels that look exactly like the twist/steel ones pictured above...the barrels appear to be in really nice condition.

He fired a few dove loads out of it...now it's off face.

Are those old guns safe to shoot or are they the cheap guns that Greener warned about ?

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PeteM Offline OP
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Joe,

Pieper did do a lot of price point guns for export. So, I would never say he did not make some low end guns.

On the whole, however, Pieper did not produce the junk guns that every one was concerned with back then. Those were guns where the chemise was not removed, the chambers were not correct, they were fake damascus, they faked proof marks, the list goes on. Very few of those guns have survived.

Sherman Bell just published on article on laminated / twist barrels. Once again, he used modern proof loads. Nothing came flying apart. Take that for what you will.

Pete

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Note in the pics Pete supplied that on the "Original Diana" there is a decided step down to the tube at forward end of breech piece (mono-block) while there is no such step on the "Modified Diana". Pieper's original patent called for the breech piece to be bored on a slight internal taper, with the tubes having a matching taper being inserted from the rear, thus the step down. The chamber was thus cut entirely in the interior of the tube.

On the Modified Diana design the breech piece was bored & threaded "part way" through from the front. The tube was turned & threaded to match with a shoulder to butt up against the front of the breech piece & then screwed in from the front. The chamber was thus cut partially in the breech piece & partially in the tube with the od of the tube shoulder blending with the breech piece.

Nota Bene (note well) the steel breech piece in the patent drawing. It is "All" machined from "One(1)" piece of steel. As far as I am aware of Pieper never used the term "Mono-Block" calling it simply his one piece steel breech, but that is the derivative of the word. Cutting off the breech section of a bbl assembly consisting of 3-4 parts brazed together "Does Not a Mono-Block Make". If you don't like the term Sleeving simply call it re-tubing, but it is not a mono-block unless it was originally machined as one piece.


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Just joined and this is my first post. I noticed the thread on Piepers and, as I have three, looked a little more closely. The gun CJO posted is actually one of mine. I was lucky enough to have CJO do some beautiful restoration work on the gun. I also have a 16 bore boxlock with the same lockup but not quite as high a grade. Both these guns have chopperlump barrels. As well I have a 12 bore sidelock Diana fine damascus with the original 1881 monoblock patent noted on the rib. It was subjected at some point in time to a hideous restock. I haven't got around to fixing that yet. If there is any interest I'll take some pictures and figure out how to post them.


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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PeteM Offline OP
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canvasback,

Welcome! Glad you decided to join in That is a great gun you have there.
We would love to see pictures of your guns. Have you figured out if that lockup is a Pieper patent?

This will get you started on the images:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...ge=1#Post148935

I know that the Diana's came in various grades. Some were very plain. I have "heard" of one that had "Henri Pieper" woven into the damascus, but have never seen it.

Pete

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would love to see some pics....dont mean to hijack this thread but I
also have some questions...when the action is open on these boxlocks does the lever stay locked to the right until the action is closed or does it come back to center if released???? mine does not stay to the right and was wondering if that is the way they were made or if there is a worn out part???

mine also has just the slightest up/down play with the forend off...what is the best way to tighten this type of lockup???

thanks


gunut
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Thanks for the welcome Pete. I have not yet figured out if the lock up is a Pieper patent but to be honest, I haven't researched it a great deal. There is a contributor to the littlegun website who has written a history of the Pieper companies but as it is only in French I have not bought it yet. Need to work on my translating abilities. I am also aware of the "Henri Pieper" damascus gun and have seen a photo of it but do not remember where on the web I found it. Quite unbelieveable! If I find it again I'll try to get a link to it or post it here.

I'll get some photos of my other guns up in the next few days. Thanks for the link on posting photos.


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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