doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com This has gotta stop !!!

jOe, thats the old 3-S rule; shoot, shovel,and shutup! Works pretty well on free-roaming dogs too.

A guy in a neighboring County near the Okeefinokee Swamp killed one of the Government's secret panther plants and hung the hide, complete with tracking collar in his barn. He didn't say a word abot it, but the G-men showed up anyway because the guy didn't know how to cut off the transmitter on the collar...Geo

The problem people are going to face with wolves is the fact that given enough time they will loose their fear of man...then we will see the first documented wolf attack.

People are too willing to let others pay the price for their actions and "dreams". If they want to bring back the wolves they should pay for the live stock and pets the wolves kill out of their own pockets. Not expect the life stock owners to freely give up their income. More to the point if I had live stock and a wolf came around I would protect my live stock. Bang. End of story.

Coyotes are now eating cats and dogs near where I live. People thought it was nice to hear and see them around. Now the same people are outraged that their property (pets) are being killed and eaten. Animal rights people are telling dog owners to keep their dogs inside 24 hours a day and the "conflict" will not occur. I expect if a few more Feefees and Fidos go missing the season on Coyotes is going to be open and enforced with a lot of effort to trim back the numbers of Coyotes and Coydogs. Maybe ranchers need to name their stock so others know that the loss of "Calvin" the calf is just as real as it would be for Bob the dog.

We've got this problem right now to a degree with coyotes here. I couple of kids were bitten a few years back.
They released Mexican Grey Wolfs here in Arizone awhile back but I haven't heard about problems with them yet.
Jim

Captchee has pretty much nailed it as to how things are out west re: wolf re-introduction at the moment. Dog depredation by wolves has been a significant problem at least here in the Bitterroot area of Montana, with over eight of them lost in the field the year before last. These losses primarily occurred among hunting dogs......specifically from among bird dogs and cat hounds.....something which should make PETA real happy.

Our elk and deer numbers are taking a substantial hit also, as are Idaho's, to where our hunter visits at the local game check station were down this fall by 25% (some 12,000+>>>8,000+). If this continues, the Montana Dept. of FWP - an advocate for the planned federal re-introduction, will be scrambling to see where their future revenues come from. As hunter success falls off (to only 6.2% this year in our area), a proportion of license-buying, revenue-creating hunters will find it easier to just stay home and watch the Sunday football game, as some obviously did this year.

Like Captchee, I, too, have always liked the idea of a few wolves being out and about in our woods, but we now have 'political' science replacing sound wildlife management in most instances to where the majority of folks are sceptical of departmental decisions.

Montana had a permit season as well this fall with a quota of 75 wolves, 73 being harvested, and a very minute portion of these being breeding females. Federal judge, Donald Malloy, recently said that if the protectionists revise their legal case appropriately this time around, he is likely to return wolves to endangered species protection.....for a second time. All in all, the situation should be very interesting on its present course, as something has got to give.

As to those who shoot coyotes, save your ammo as the wolves will mop them up once they get to your area!


Rob Harris

Geno, Thanks for the posting of wolf hunting photo. Do you mind if I circulate it around Michigan, telling them it was taken this winter near Newberry in the UP? Randy ( Geno, BTW, In your photo what is wound up in those reels, with the blaze orange flagging?? Do you string them out to funnel the wolves to the gunners?)

Robt Harris and Friends:

What is inflicting this problem on the world is NOT political science, which is the scientific study of power processes within and among organized groups and institutions,. This problem has been created by POLITICS.

The Greenies have convinced the legislatures of the various States, and Congress, that wolves are more important than livestock, dogs, cats and people's livelihood. 30 years ago, the wold was, apparently in sorry shape in North America, and the pendulum swung to their protection to prevent their feared extinction. Along with that went the program for population re-establishment. At no point did anyone but the most extreme Greenies intend for them to grow to the point that human activity was restricted.. ( hmm.. or maybe that was the plan originally ).

As for the DNR's lack of interest when your hunting dogs are killed, remember that State game departments are funded by the Legislatures, so they are unwilling to bite the hand that feeds them.

At any rate, there are now plenty or wolves, and we should move to establish a regulated hunting and trapping regime. If not, burgeoning wolf populations will continue to eat into ( excuse the pun) game populations, not to mention the snacking on domestic pets and extensive livestock depredation. As someone else suggested, if they lose their fear of man, watch out.

The odd fact is that the folks pushing this kind of Bambi-ite protectionism rarely leave the confines of the big city, and the most open land with which they are intimately familiar are the wolds of Central Park. For these folks, Idaho, Montana, Yooperland, West Texas and Arizona are simply "Fly-Over Country" where the the unwashed and un-enlightened live and work.

To return to my main premise - if you want regulated hunting of wolves, or some other population control, you need to take this up with your State legislator and Congressman. It was politics that got us to this point, and unfortunately, it will require politics to fix it.

Regards

GKT

Unfortunately yes it was politics .
But as we are finding out here in the west , states rights mean nothing . Going to your states congressman means nothing ..

Reason being is that the program that protects wolves is a federal one . As such when a state management department defines a needed harvest for management of ALL game .
The feds step in and say NOPE sorry . If a state then turns its back , the Fed fish and wildlife remove funding . As such the state departments then have to manage the big game herds without being able to manage a large predator and its increasing populations .

As such the original re-introduction agreements have long since been met and far surpassed . In fact to the point other states which did not or were not part of the re introduction are now also having to come up with plans to deal with a predator that they themselves said NOPE not happening here .

Imagine if you will your neighbor deciding to raise free range hogs . But had no way of controlling them after he got them . Eventually they effect your property .
But your hands are also tied and can do very little but stand and watch as they sloly dig up your corn fields

that’s just what we face here
Recently here an add was run by the wolf foundations just prior to the season opening .
It stated that more live stock is lost each year by the weather then is by wolves .
I would have to say that’s true ,.
However the weather is something none can control . Its an un controllable loss .
Loss by predators however is a controllable lose . One that can be reduce .

Geno,

As RMC asked:What is the orange stuff on the reels.

Doubt it is Christmas lights; you definitly have a purpose for that stuff.

Oh Greg,......give me a little credit, would ya'?

Didn't you notice the apostrophes bracketing my word 'political' in an effort to make it euphemistic? I'm saying the very same thing you are, in that politics often drive many wildlife management decisions these days to the detriment of practical management.

As for the rest of what you said, I couldn't agree with you more - and good on you for saying it.

Rob