doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Very odd Sauer

Looks to have a thru-bolt; both sides the right side is probably 'dummied'


http://www.gunsinternational.com/JP-SAUER-PRUSSIAN-PRE-WAR-SXS-12-GAUGE.cfm?gun_id=100112267

If that's not a Greener I'll eat my hat. If not a Greener, then made to look exactly like one. The frame shape, serpentine fences, frame bolsters at the angle of the frame. Even the fancyback design all are exactly like a 45G Greener. The side safety is obvious but the other features say "Greener" just as loud.

Maybe correct; I didn't see a 'caveman' either. Yet, he says it's in a Sauer catalog.

I think he mentioned it was in a new Sauer text. I'd like to see the proofmarks. It's a frame as filed by Bernhard Merkel and I have assumed for some time that he sourced Sauer for the raw forgings and then he himself was sourced for longarms in the white at first and post WWI for firearms in the finished state by the Berlin makers such as Barella, Foerster, Geiger, J.J. Reeb, Ludwig Schiwy, etc. See the banner on Cabela's "Fine Rifles" page and there is a DR with a similar frame. Nice find and I'll have to see if I can get some tube pics.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Look at pic of left side, I can see sign WWGreener.

I don't see it right off but will need to pull the pics into a viewer. But the Germans pretty much ceased sourcing the British in the 1870s or early 1880s. It just doesn't make economic sense for a firm that can do everything inhouse, and has it's backyard as Suhl, to source Greener. Leue had a realtionship w/ Greener, but I think it was purely peddling. Sauer did make some boxlocks on the Facile Princeps and I know of one example that was peddled by Heinrich Scherping. The underside of the frame has similar contours to a version with the Facil Princeps. Sauer #146331 purportedly for the Krupps has similar pins, frame and could be based on the Facile Princips. Regarding a sense of nationalism, I don't think Sauer would have sourced Greener for a frame and then completed the firearm inhouse and gave/sold it to the Krupps.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I saw this piece sell on gunbroker for 2750.00 or so about a month ago. Of course the reason it got my attention was it is a Sauer-Greener...a bit of an oddity to be sure but such an animal is illustrated in Cates book on Sauer. (So this example makes at least two of these Sauer-Greeners known) Not really my cup of tea, as it were, but Sauer (as most folks realize) would make damn near anything the customer wanted. I have seen so many one offs now I rarely question the odd ones anymore. One of the oddist Sauers that I ever saw was a Sauer & Sohn shotgun with Westley Richards top rib extension and lock up, including the same type and shape of top lever. It was unique to say the least. Jeff

I'm curious if Sauer totally manufactured this example inhouse? Right off if it is post WWI, I'd speculate not. Is there anyone in Vegas who can stop by Steve Barnett's table and check the marks, maybe even a pic??

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

I'll try and take some photos tomorrow (Sunday.)

Clay

Clayws..Please take photos of the the proof marks if you can and post at some point. (I am curious as if there are any Engilish proof marks on this piece. Also curious if the piece has Krupp or Whitworth barrels) Serial number reported to me is 123,2XX...and not being familier with Greener S/N's I presume this to be a Sauer S/N. Action has intergral ejectors...not in the forend but in the action itself...makes this a Sauer that is made from Greeners "self-acting Hammerless Ejector Gun" (Facile Princeps action? Ref Greener The Gun and its Devlopment pg 197) thanks in advance for your help. Jeff