doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com To SDH-MT.Britte Guns.Toledo Steel Works on bbls

Thanks Pete...you seem to be THE MAN with a very wide radar, on any thing European , ..Like "Researcher" is with the American Guns...my Donegal Tweed cap is off to you both , & the others great Q answrers like 2Piper ,Raimy (Kind Regards :),& the many others who are just too numerous to mention, no never mind about remembering them all right now.
Soo helpful,on such an eclectic array of them.
TGIF & I got off work early & am feeling happy, have a nice Weekend lads!!!!!
So Pete...Britte stamp is roughly eB????
Perhaps it's on LittleGun
I didn't think to look
Cheers
Franc Otte

A little tid-bit of info on John Henry Andrews -
http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/Jno._Hy._Andrew_and_Co .

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I'm curious how the "JF" lands up on the steel type stamp found on many Belgian tubes:


John Henry Andrew must have acquired a steel works, or opened one, in or around Liege as it would go against simple economics to have sourced tubes from Sheffield.



V. Halska & Company from Littlegun's site.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Kerryman,
Bte (is this it ?) is usually an abbreviation for Brevete, i.e patented.
The marking before FRES (Freres=brothers) is the real name, unfortunately hidden in the picture.
Best regards,
WC

Establishment Britte,EB, supplied actions to the trade in the same widespread manner that Weblet Scott supplied to the British trade. Purdey wanted to sell a boxlock, they bought the action from Webley Scott. A Belgian maker wanted to make a gun, he bought the action from Britte.

The article in Shooting Sportsman November/ December 2009 contains erroneous information. Specifically P. 59 lower left, 4th line from the bottom: "There also were 17 finished Holland & Holland-style sidelock ejector side-by-sides ...", and the top right columns: "All of the finished guns...were 12 bore".

Also the Luc Vanderbordt offering contains the following erroneous information:
"To make a long story short, Britte Corp was managed since 1946 by Mr Louis Dessart (Theophile Britte Grand Son) in 1997 he sold his Corp to Vincent Pissart his son in law and sold to GRIFFIN & HOWE, the family collection of SIDELOCK and SUPERBRITTE shotguns adn also all the inventory of parts remaining in the basement since 1936.
Specifically, " Sold to Griffin & Howe, the family collection of SIDELOCK ".

In fact, there were not 17, but 20 finished Holland & Holland-style finished sidelocks.
Also, they were not all 12 bore.
At least three of these were and are 16 gauge!
The 17 finished 12 gauge Sidelocks from the Britte/Dessart/ Pissart collection are the 17 which were left of the 20 finished Sidelocks, after the three 16 gauge were purchased through Luc Vanderbordt by private parties.

One of those 16 gauge guns, arguably the nicest of them all, is signed by the engraver in not one, not two, but three places! How many other guns can boast of that?
Shooting Sportsman acknowledged the author got the fodder for their article from Guy @ Griffin & Howe.
But, the article is erroneous. There are three lovely 16 gauge Holland & Holland-style finished sidelocks out there as testimony. Two were purchased through Luc Vanderbordt by an upstate NY gentleman at a Vintage Cup event, one had later been for sale on consignment with Niles of Safari Outfitters, another one of the 16's was purchased used by a Texas Lawyer and gentleman, from Charles at British Sporting Arms, and the other, the game scene and scroll, signed in three places by the engraver, pick of them all, was purchased through Luc Vanderbordt and imported by Jack Dudley/ LaBecasse.

Shooting Sportsman magazine has been made aware of this. They remain staunch in their position that their readership is not interested enough in the full story, or "Rest of the Story" as Paul Harvey used to say, to themselves publish any follow-up or clarification for purpose of reporting the full factual information to its readership, nor to give validity to the other three finished Holland & Holland-style finished sidelocks from the Britte, Dessart, Pissart collection of 20 which was kept in the family posession since approximately 1936, then Offered for Sale by Luc Vanderbordt at The Vintage Cup where he initiated sale of three of the collection of 20, the three all three being in the revered 16 gauge, to private parties.
They did however offer to make an attempt to get the information in the letters column if submitted.

So let's see a pic!

Steven, You write for Shooting Sportsman, yes? Having subscribed since the beginning, I have read many of your articles.

It would seem to me that a Magazine which prides itself in servicing a very elite group of readers has a responsibility to put forth honest, factual information, when at all possible, which I believe Shooting Sportsman Magazine does, but, just as important is a responsibility to their subscribers, without whom they might not survive and their other loyal readers, to make any and all effort to make right any incorrect or less than factual information presented, perhaps unknowingly.
The recent article touted the "Jules Bury Collection" which Griffin & Howe acquired through Luc Vander Borght. It included a number of finished Holland & Holland-style sidelocks. The article erroneously establishes that there were "17" finished Holland & Holland-style sidelocks, and further establishes erroneously that they are all 12-bores.
Further the article reports that "thanks to Griffin & Howe, the entire find has been made available to the public." This is also erroneous.

Griffin & Howe may have acquired through Luc Vander Borght the "remaining" 17 finished Holland & Holland-style finished sidelocks, all of which are 12-bore,
but only after three beautiful others, which are all in the much revered 16 gauge, one of which is signed in not one, not two, but in three places by it's Master Belgian engraver, were acquired from Dessart/Pissart collection of not "17" but 20, through Luc Vander Borght who offered them for sale at a Vintage Cup event.

Does not a Magazine have a responsibility to its readership, to the makers and to the guns themselves to give validity to their existence and place in history and in our sport?
That is my question to you.

My answer to you Bob Rowley, and to Mr. Bumbellybeak, is that the editor decides what what is published in the magazine. It fact, he decides if my column is going to be published. I have no voice in those decisions. You might ask your question on the Shooting Sportsman web site or direct a Letter to the Editor.

I am a freelance writer. It never fail to amaze me when someone imagines that I am resposible for anything published in the magazine besides what my by-line is directly attached to??!!??

The story did not make mention of the Britte metalwork I bought directly from Luc Vander Borght and I didn't imagine it would? That metalwork is the subject of this thread and it's origin is the reason for this thread.

As for any 16 ga. guns, I'd still like to see a pic! And who was that fellow who, "signed in not one, not two, but in three places by it's Master Belgian engraver"?
Best,
Steve

What a fantastic thread! Thanks to all for the schooling. Rowely?

Steven,
You read me wrong. I did not imagine you responsible for anything the Magazine publishes. I don't imagine or think you would have any voice in decisions on what does or does not get published.
My question to you was posed to you because you put forth, and later put forth again that you would like to see a picture.

My point exactly; that Shooting Sportsman magazine has a multi-level responsibility to publish the whole truth, including pictures, not just what best serves Griffin & Howe.

Is it Dave's responsibility to provide the bandwidth in order to post pictures of those lovely 16's the Magazine, for whatever reasons, left out?
Have you told your publisher/editor you'd like to see pictures, Steven?

As for the engraver who signed his work on one of these finished 16 gauge Holland & Holland-style sidelocks, I have had the privilege of corresponding with this man via email with the help of not one, but two translators, one of which met with this engraver. He has communicated his recollections of these fine arms, has sent a copy of his Master Engraver Certificate issued my Belgium, a photo of the finished gun on his workbench, and much more interesting information as well.

I'd think the readership of Shooting Sportsman would want to know the whole truth, or as Paul Harvey would have said, The Rest of the Story, but the Editor does not, which is not good in my book.