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Well done Raimey. My 00 Smith with Armor steel barrels stamped SB&Co is from 1906, and I couldn't find a New York listing for Buckley at that date.

Thanks Drew but I'm pretty sure Samuel Buckley & Co. were peddling precious metals and art in the early 1900s from 100 Williams Street, NY: http://books.google.com/books?id=-0QAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA130&dq=samuel+buckley+%26+co.&cd=8#v=onepage&q=samuel%20buckley%20%26%20co.&f=false . I wanted to find info on Samuel Buckley & Co. in order to possibly eliminate them as a possiblilty but they are still there.

At the moment I think the leads to be in the direction of Hunter Arms owning a bit of the Crucible Steel Company and the "Crown Steel" trademark stamp with "H.A.??" on the underside possibly giving some revelation. If we could find a document linking Hunter Arms & the Crucible Steel Company, I would say that would give more weight toward Sanderson Brothers & Co. Also are there any L.C. Smiths, or other American makes, with the Crown Steel trademark & "SB&Co." stamp?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Drew, I think the barrel marking and the gun's manufacture date are somewhat relative, but some barrel blanks could have been in stock for years before being used. Kind of like the cupboards here at home. The freshest stuff seems to be at the front and easiest to grab, but sometimes we do get to the back for the older things.

Drew:
Any idea the 1st year Crown Steel tubes were offered? It looks like Montgomery Ward peddled L.C.'s with Crown Tubes in 1894/1895 and Sears in 1895/1896.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

As I thought, Edmund Leavenworth French looks to be the key and conduit for the transfer of steel technology from Germany to Sanderson Brothers & Company, Syracuse, when he was hired probably in 1894/1895. Things were really hopping in the early 1890s with the new proof laws and steels were being developed to handle the new progressive powders. If I remember correctly, Krupp developed their nickel steel about this time. So with Edmund Leavenworth French as a student/apprentice in 1892 & 1893 with the German scientists, he was able to obtain the recipe or composition for the new steels, with one component being tungsten or sometimes referred to as Mushet English Steel. Circa 1895 when Edmund Leavenworth French joined the Sanderson Brothers & Co. firm, apparently they were already toying with the additions of chromium, molybdenum, nickel, titanium and vanadium to their steel. About the same time experiements were made with rare earth metals boron, cerium, lanthanum and I'm sure others. So it is highly probably that either Edmund Leavenworth French either knew the Krupp composition or had some close idea of the percentages. I can't remember if it was 1900 or 1903 but samples, some possibly barrels, indicate that Sanderson Brothers & Co. and Park Steel Company had almost the exact percentages of components in their steel; maybe an indication of data or recipe sharing?? Also in 1900 the Bethlehem Iron Company had 4% Nickel in their barrels. In the late 1890s there was a Black Diamond Steel Works which had been run by the Park Steel Company in Pittsburgh.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Per Houchins, Sanderson supplied Nitro and Crown steel barrels to Hunter Arms starting in 1895, Armor in 1898, and Royal in 1901.

Here we go again

1906 12g 00 Smith with 'Armour' steel barrels marked S.B. & Co P



1910 F grade Smith hammer gun ROYAL STEEL stamped over S.B. & Co C



SB&Co G on an Ithaca Flues courtesy of Craig Havener



A VERY DIFFERENT 'SB&Co' on a 1920 Ithaca Flues Field



ALSO STAMPED 'LLH' of Laurent Lochet-Habran



I'm thinking the Smith SB&Co is Sanderson and the later Flues is Samuel Buckley.
The earliest Smith with 'LLH' we've seen is a pre-1913 20g ALSO STAMPED 'ACL' - Acier Cockerill Liege.

Interesting post there Squire Drew. Can it be said that "Armour" & "Royal Steel" are American trade names for specific steel composition or are they just marketing names? I'd say that if the "SB&Co" is followed by a letter then it was sourced State side. Can we also guess that Sanderson & Buckley used the same trademark? Just as I thought, "we don't know nothing", to use a double negative for emphasis.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Drew:
Any idea the 1st year Crown Steel tubes were offered? It looks like Montgomery Ward peddled L.C.'s with Crown Tubes in 1894/1895 and Sears in 1895/1896".

I researched Hunter Arms and their Crown Steel barrels in conjunction with a DGJ article I did several years ago on the Pigeon Grade Smith gun; and in the process received a copy of an old sporting goods ad dated August, 1894 from Researcher. According to that ad, the Hunter Arms Company was promoting their trademarked "new Crown Steel" barrels in conjunction with their "new Pigeon gun". People mistakenly believe that both the Smith Pigeon Grade gun and Crown Steel barrels were not introduced until 1895 because that is the first year these items were cataloged; but from this early ad we know that Hunter was already promoting both at least as early as August, 1894. Perhaps Researcher will post a photo of this early ad.

Thanks for the reminder Tom. Your 1894 Chas. Godfrey catalog
"Crown steel...made to order and expressly for use in this gun."



And Dr Jim found the first run of 10 Pigeon Grade guns (SNs 37209 to 37218) were started in May 1893.