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Joined: Jan 2003
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Originally Posted By: DGM
I will e returning to the the NE SXS shoot at Hausman's Hidden Hollow next week. I look forward to giving those 3/4 oz RST's another try.

http://hiddenhollowsportingclays.com/


I'll be looking for those 3/4 ounce empties at the Bo-Whoop station. cool


Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 168
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I'm looking foreward to seeing a DGM listed as champion on the sporting course with those 3/4 oz. loads. And the same with the Bo Whoppers. All the theory men will be whooping it up, square load, less shot damage with the setback and bore pounding, short shotstring, ect. Stay tuned for the post game report after the NE SXS.

Joined: Oct 2005
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A couple weeks ago I had an opportunity to shoot clays at three nice English clay courses: Bisley, West Kent, and the E.J. Churchill Shooting Grounds. I borrowed a friend's beautiful vintage Hodges sidelock side by side to shoot. Once again, I found the Hull 21 gram (3/4 oz) load to be a very good and popular load.

Part of the popularlity is that English cartridges seem to be priced by the amount of lead, with lighter loads being noticeably cheaper.

We tackled the Grouse Butt and a 50 yard high tower. The light loads did a great job. They didn't seem as soft as the RST 3/4 oz Falcons, but recoil was noticably light and you couldn't beat the price.

Sensitivity over the lead issue is also apparently pushing some clubs to encourage lighter loads. While over there I read and heard a lot about the looming battle in the UK over lead shoot. A government committee has been appointed to look into the lead shot issue, and major sporting organizations are wrestling with how to respond.

If lead is banned, less available or more costly, it could really put some UK clubs in a bind because many clubs have already banned steel target loads due to safety (riccochet) issues. At West Kent Shooting Grounds, there is a sign on the clubhouse door that steel loads are banned at the club due to it's proximity to a residential area.

Here is an interesting article on the ballistic performance of Hull Comp X 21 gram loads and some of the issues involved:

http://gunmart.net/accessories_review/hu...utm_campaign=rl





Last edited by DGM; 08/10/10 05:03 PM.

"When you have to shoot, Shoot! Don't talk." - Tuco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZXlhSgq7us
Joined: Aug 2010
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In looking at the gunmart article DGM cited, it seems to me that the shell crimp is particularly deep and the taper very pronounced. This should increase pressure and help with inconsistent burns with such a light load. I think I should go readjust my MEC. Been shooting 3/4 oz loads for a couple of years to try to stem a flinch and minimize ammo cost. Usually works great, but I do sometimes have a weak sounding report. I suspect some of the older hull are just not holding a strong enough crimp.

Must say that in the full choked Cashmore 3/4 of 8's has broken some targets that were way out there, however, I do take along some 7/8 of 71/2's in competition.

Joined: Jul 2009
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I shoot regularly here in the UK with Eley Hawks 21g First cartridge and find it a superb cartridge in my Reilly hammergun. The Reilly is not a particularly light 12 bore, but I just prefer the lighter load and lessened recoil when shooting clays, especially rounds of 50+. If I can't shoot with these, I use a RC 24g load of 7.5's - certainly not heavier than this.

DGM - the lead shot debate is certainly a concern, and although the main shooting organisation here, the BASC, has come in for criticism for what is seen as a concillatory stance on the issue, I would far rather have them at the debating table than outside it, unable to influence the discussions. It behoves all shooting folk here in the UK to communicate their own point of view on this as well to support BASC - with a more immediate concern and focus being arguably the Govt firearms review later this month which comes hot on the tradgedy of Cumbria.

Joined: Jun 2006
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I am setting up a press for 3/4oz, 12 ga, 2 1/2 inch cartridges. After reading this thread, "What is the OTC wad that comes closest to the RST shotcup wad?"
The RST's are great shells, but I enjoy reloading.

I need low pressure, 1100-1200 fps loads.

Joined: Dec 2007
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I have been buying B&P Sub-sound loads. They are 2 5/8" long and carry 7/8 oz (or 1oz if you choose) of shot at 1100 fps. I have used them on quail, sporting clays, trap, and skeet. I am just a weekend shooter but I haven't notice a difference in my scores. The recoil is almost non-existent (less than any of my 20ga SXSs) and they seem to bust birds and clays just fine.


PLUS, at $79/case, they are cheaper than any other low recoil load out there. And shipping is free!

http://bandpusa.com/competition/f2-sub-sound-125.html

Adam

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While I support everyone's right to choose to shoot light (or, extremely light, in Chuck's case) loads at targets, there is no arguing with results, or data. As for results, I have no doubt that 3/4 oz. loads will break every target on a skeet range, we're talking 21 yds. here, but they won't break every target every time on a sporting clay tournament range, REGARDLESS OF THE CHOKE USED. As to the data, in last month's issue of SPORTING CLAYS magazine Tom Roster restated the results, and the conclusion drawn from those results, that he found in controlled testing. He stated that, if you want 100% certainty that you will break every edge on target at 40 yards that is centered with the load, you cannot achieve that with less than a 1 oz. load of 7 1/2's, out of a full choke. He shot many edge on clay birds at 40 yds. with a gun in a benchrest with 8's and 7 1/2's to come up with these results. Note that the targets were not spinning, which certainly lends to easier breaks from the centrifugal force helping to sling the target apart, but were sitting on a dowel. But, keep in mind that this was using a FULL CHOKED gun! I use .020" choke in both barrels in competition, and will use nothing less than 1 1/8 oz. in a tournament setting. If I choose to use 1 oz. loads in my BSS in a S x S only shoot (which is choked mod. and full) it is only because that particular gun is more manageable with lighter loads, which helps me get on the second bird of a true pair quicker. I get much harder breaks at all ranges with the 1 1/8 oz. loads than with lighter ones, and smoked targets translates into confidence, which is ultra important in competition.

I understand that we all shoot for enjoyment, and that we should shoot in the way that brings us the most enjoyment, and that competition certainly is not enjoyable for most shooters. For some that means featherweight guns and very light loads. But there can be no denying that, for some of us, an unbroken target that falls to the ground brings no enjoyment. The old well worn argument that light loads lead to more actual hits is hollow, it has no way of being proven. Besides, all of us are not recoil sensitive at the same level. What's more, the opposite is much more easily shown to be most likely true, by practice. How many of the top 10 percent of the shooters in registered sporting clay competition use less than 1 oz. loads? Few, if any. The vast majority are using 1 1/8 oz. (shudder the thought!) loads. If they could use lighter loads, which have less recoil, and break just as many or more birds, why wouldn't they be doing so?

If I choose to shoot 3/4 or 7/8 oz. loads, I will shoot them with tighter chokes, but I will accept the fact that I will lose a 35 plus yd. bird occasionally that gets hit well by the center portion of my pattern but is not going to break.

I shoot for fun, too. But, dust off a target, or a target that I know I shot well that flies on unbroken is no fun for me and leads to a lack of confidence. Smoked targets, and "dishrag dead" birds are fun.

Stan


"With one foot in the grave ..........and one foot on the pedal, I was born a Rebel" T.P.
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Originally Posted By: CBL1
I shoot regularly here in the UK with Eley Hawks 21g First cartridge and find it a superb cartridge in my Reilly hammergun. The Reilly is not a particularly light 12 bore, but I just prefer the lighter load and lessened recoil when shooting clays, especially rounds of 50+. If I can't shoot with these, I use a RC 24g load of 7.5's - certainly not heavier than this.

DGM - the lead shot debate is certainly a concern, and although the main shooting organisation here, the BASC, has come in for criticism for what is seen as a concillatory stance on the issue, I would far rather have them at the debating table than outside it, unable to influence the discussions. It behoves all shooting folk here in the UK to communicate their own point of view on this as well to support BASC - with a more immediate concern and focus being arguably the Govt firearms review later this month which comes hot on the tradgedy of Cumbria.


You guys in GB are in deep doodoo what with the power of the anti's. And it seems like the BSAC is with them. Steel got in the door here because all of the organizations sat on their hands and did not demand REAL scientific evidence to support the ban. Opinion and make-believe science got the ban in place. Of course I know that asking for a scientific study from a gov will only get ones supplied for free and guess who will be ready and willing to pony up those babies?
Best of luck - you're gonna need it

Dr.WtS


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Joined: Aug 2010
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Stan - I read that article and it confirmed my belief that for me, for now, light loads are better for competition. The target setters around here rarely have an edge-on target at 40 yards, preferring to get you with change ups in target speeds, odd transitions, and weird flight paths. At most 10% of targets are as hard to break as unmoving, edge-on at 40. So if I shoot 20 tournaments, 2000 targets, 200 are in this category. Roster says I might drop 1-3% of these when I'm on them (I'd be using full choke and 7/8 of 71/2's on these presentations). If I'm shooting better than usual I'll be on 75% of the 200 long shots, so using 2% 'load failures', I'm losing 3 hits per season. Meanwhile I'm dropping dozens to flinches and hundreds to gaps in my technique and skill and mental abilities.
For now, I think light loads and full chokes are helping me work on my weakest areas.

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