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4 members (GMCS, KY Jon, CJ Dawe, 1 invisible),
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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RWTF, I am surprised by your German knowledge. It is not sure that I am the "new" owner of these 2 books, it is of course an auction and it stops jan 13, but for the moment I am still the highest bidder. You can registred yourself if you want and bid self, I just check and they send international.
I think you better check first how much you need pay for the postage, it can be expensiv.
However, if you want more info,my E-Mail adress is in my profile.
Marc.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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It is indeed the Jack Higgins book, made into a great movie starring Micheal Caine as Oberst Leutnent Steiner- a true soldier and a Fallschirmjaeger (paratrooper), with his father a ranking Wehrmacht General Oberst--Robert Duvall plays the Oberst in the Abwehr, who develops the plot to capture Churchill in Nov 1944 when he was planning a week-end retreat to the North Coastal area of England. Himmler approved this plan, thought with Winnie as hostage they could sue for peace and end the war they were losing daily by then--
Some of the idea for this came from the successful rescuse of Hitler's Henchman pal Benito Mussolini-in Septemeber of 1943- Mussolini was held prisoner in a Italian Alp area retreat, thought to be invincible from ground forces. Oberst Otto Skorzensky and his men did daring jump, overpowered the guards and rescused El Duce- Hitler personally decorated Otto with a Knights Cross with diamonds and oak leaves-
Donald Sutherland plays the IRA operative who works as a game keeper for the Abwehr on a marsh estate area where Sir Winston is due to visit- great plot, the last movie I believe directed by John Sturges--
The Luftwaffe comes into play a bit, and a Ace fighter pilot is chosen to fly the aircraft for Steiner's mission- He has been denied the Knights Cross, for Luftwaffe pilots this was usually presented by Goering personally at a weekend event- involving hunting and a lot of schnapps too- at Karinhall- This pilot was denied this prestigious award, as he made the mistake of telling Goering face to face that the British Supermarine Spitfire was a bit better at close quarters dogfighting, better turn and bank agility I heard that the ME 109 Series German fighter planes.
There may well be some truth to that, in the Pacific theatre our pilots and aviators learned that the fast Jap ZEKE- Zero fighter had one major weakness (besides no armor- like the famed Republic P47 Thunderbolt carried for example)- if a pilot could push a Zero in making a right bank turn, often the Zero would stall and be a 'sitting duck"-
The plot fails, but Steiner and his men were sentenced to a suicide torpedo team as punishment for an incident which shows to me that not all the Germans, civilians or military, were despots like Hitler, Himmler and Goering- Steiner, as a decorated Lt. Col. encounters a Waffen SS unit under command of a General, loading jewish civilians onto a train somewhere in Poland- a girl tries to escape and Steiner protects her, holds the SS General at bay with his Walther pistol- to save his men who stand with him in this brave action, from being shot by the superior number of SS forces, he surrenders- He is then later picked for this "suicide mission" and his General father is held prisoner by Himmler as 'insurance"
Great story- Jack Higgins is one of the best, and his research into this scenario is First Rate- see the 1976 movie "Der Adler ist gelandet" The Eagle has landed-- much better than the earlier 1968 movie with Clint Eastwood and Richard Burton- "Wo Adleren sich traven"- Where Eagles dare-
Ref:- The plot fails, but Steiner and his men were sentenced to a suicide torpedo team as punishment for an incident which shows to me that not all the Germans, civilians or military, were despots like Hitler, Himmler and Goering- Steiner, as a decorated Lt. Col. encounters a Waffen SS unit under command of a General, loading jewish civilians onto a train somewhere in Poland- a girl tries to escape and Steiner protects her, holds the SS General at bay with his Walther pistol- to save his men who stand with him in this brave action, from being shot by the superior number of SS forces, he surrenders- He is then later picked for this "suicide mission" and his General father is held prisoner by Himmler as 'insurance". Micheal Caine and the other paratroopers holed up in the Norfolk church at the end of the movie and a bunch of passing yanks (Rangers getting ready for D-Day) came to the villagers rescue and then Cain dies heroically in a shootout. The Steiner mentioned in the eastern front was James Coburn in another film called "Steiner". Just putting things right. Martin
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 2 |
Those stories and movies about the two Steiners are complete fiction! But yes, not all German soldiers were hardcore Nazis, and yes, there were Strafkompanien = penalty companies with a very low survival probability. Most German soldiers were simply soldiers who served their country, like soldiers of all other nations. If you are interested in German language books about Göring, Frevert and Rominten, try www.jana-jagd.de
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Danke- Thanks to all who have responded and made this thread an interesting lesson in World History. I very much agree with the comment about most of the German soldiers- we hear about the atrocities of the SS and the Gestapo, and those actions overshadow that of the common "Deutche Soldat" who just wanted to be back home to: Mosel, Frankfort, Cologne or anywhere there was no more fighting and be reunited with his family, in the same manner in which the Allied soldiers wanted- This is also born out by the fact that about 4/100 Allied soldiers captured by the Wehrmacht and incarcerated in POW camps died in captivity, mainly from diseases and not mis-treatment at the hands of their captors. As far as the ratio of Allied prisoners at the hands of the Japanese, I have heard various numbers, anywhere from 60 up towards 84 percent did not survive- disease, starvation, the infamous Battan death march. I often wonder how it was that Hitler could make a pact with the Japs- with Mussolini, yes--and if he hadn't made the mistake of attacking Russia- who can say. Now Germany and Japan are our allies-history is indeed strange-
That being said, here's another story about "Zaftig Reichmarshall Goering"- probably an inner Nazi circle joke- Besides being grossly obese, Goering was a gaudy dresser, wearing all sorts of medals and sashes and always in a uniform that would have made Prof. Harold Hill of "The Music Man" envious- One night, in Berlin at the OperaHaus- the star male singer, also a large rotund man, came out dressed in the same manner as Goering favored- and a Wehrmacht General's wife turned to her husband and said: "Blick, liebes-- ist nicht diese Reichmarshall Goering in seinen Pyjamas auf dem Stadium heute Abend?"-- translated she said to her husband-- Look, dear- isn't that Goering in his pyjamas on the stage tonight?--
Goering was a braggart and fond of boasting-- he may have been a WW1 Ace like Udet and Baron Manfred Von Richtofen, but he was not a brilliant military strategist like FM Irwin Rommel or even "Smilin' Al"-- aka- FM Alfred Kesselring- The Battle of Britian was his to win- but instead of knocking out the British radar towers and then straffing and bombing their airfields, most likely to curry favor with Hitler, he moved to bomb London- the radar gave the Brits a "heads up" on the incoming German aircraft-- rest is history. But Goering was so cocky and confident he once openly said "If an Allied bomb should hit Berlin, you can call me Meyer"--
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
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Well, indeed HG was nicknamed "Herr Meyer" in the later stages of WW2, but only secretly. Another joke from the 1930s, when he was in charge of police and concentration camps: "Is it true: HG collects the jokes told about him?" - "Yes, he collects all the jokes, but he also collects the people who tell the jokes." At the same time the same joke was told about Stalin to, here the answer was:"No, he collects the people!"
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Kudane- you have "nailed this HG" shotgun myth" right dead in its tracks--I am 100% certain you are right about the Goering Crest that Hermann designed, and in spite of his huge ego, he was smart enough to know there were thousands of German males with the initials H.G. living during his involvement with the Third Reich. I did not know that he was that much involved with the actions of both the SA and later the SS, I knew he was close friends with Willie Messerschmidt, and was involved with Franco during the Spanish Civil War, where the fledgling Luftwaffe pilots became very proficient with the Stuka dive bombers--
The Germans have always prized the traditions of the Knights, and a lot of Richard Wagner's works evolved around the theme of Knighthood- so it no surprise to see the raised arm holding the ring (ring of the Valkeries?) also encased in a Knight's armor--
But as you detailed old "Fat Boy Hermann's" WW1 nickname, given perhaps by brother pilots in his Jagstaffel-- The iron One-makes me wonder what nicknames Udet, Immelmann and Von Richtofen had back then. In American history, only two famous men that I know of were given nicknames with the Iron theme- Lou Gehrig the famed NY Yankee first baseman was called "The Iron Man" as we all know-possibly less known but true is the nickname his troops gave Gen. Custer-he was known as "Old Iron Ass" because he could stay in the saddle longer than any other man, officer or not, in his command-at least until Little Big Horn--PS- my "bad" How could I be forgetting Baron Manfred Von R's moniker- The Red Baron- from his all red Fokker triplane- possibly his brother "Fliegers um Jagstaffel" had another name for him as well. Being a Baro and with a Von prefex suggests he already had a coat of arms family crest- interesting that Goering developed his later!
Last edited by Run With The Fox; 01/11/11 09:18 AM.
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
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The Germans have always prized the traditions of the Knights, and a lot of Richard Wagner's works evolved around the theme of Knighthood- so it no surprise to see the raised arm holding the ring (ring of the Valkeries?) also encased in a Knight's armor- Not necessary, it's a so-called "speaking crest: An iron arm holding a ring -- HG's name is spoken Gö-ring in German! The Iron - ring - wings of a pilot... If you want to know more about WW1 fighter "aces", here is a link: http://www.theaerodrome.com/services/germany/jg/index.php One of the lower aces of Jagdgeschwader 1, "Richthofen's Flying Circus", H.Maushake of JASTA4, with 6 "victories", was a friend and hunting buddy of my grandfather and told me some WW1 stories. BTW, the sought after Luftwaffendrillinge were not made by Krieghoff, but Sauer & Sohn, Suhl!
Last edited by kuduae; 01/11/11 07:26 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
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Danke, welches meinen Fruend fur den gut-genommenen Punkt der Korrektur in der Tat das Aufspiessen mit dem unlat unber dem Buchstabe O-- einem Hauptgewicht aud dem Wortring zeigen wurde. Sie sind auch, nien Heinrich Krieghoff in Ulm, aber in der Tat Simpson und Sohn in Suhl-- Zu bleiben bildeten!! Der Fox--
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 2 |
But as you detailed old "Fat Boy Hermann's" WW1 nickname, given perhaps by brother pilots in his Jagstaffel-- The iron One-makes me wonder what nicknames Udet, Immelmann and Von Richtofen had back then. In American history, only two famous men that I know of were given nicknames with the Iron theme- You ovelooked at least one American, namely the "Ace of Aces", the most sucessful American pilot of WW1 with 26 victories, "Iron Man Eddie" Rickenbacker! And, Josef Wissarionowich Djugachvili became known as Josef Stalin, the "Man of Steel".
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Thanks- I didn't know that- his squadron was the famed "Hat In The Ring" and they flew the French Spad fighter- but Ironman- 26 kills, back before armor and parachutes- a well earned title indeed--
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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