October
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
11 members (Karl Graebner, canvasback, KDGJ, coosa, Ian Forrester, 1 invisible), 92 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics36,201
Posts508,833
Members14,085
Most Online462
Aug 5th, 2016
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 40
LeFusil Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 40
I was under the impression that Chas. Lancaster guns with a "0" in the prefix were not actually made in the Lancaster factory at 151 New Bond St. Most of these types of guns being "body action" type guns or mid-grade sidelocks. Does anyone here have a good idea of who was contracted or sourced to build these "O" prefix guns for Lancasters? I've noticed that still all of the guns that I've looked at with "0" prefix still bear London proof marks, I've never seen one with Birmingham proofs. Any help, thoughts or good info is of course, greatly appreciated.

Dustin

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,284
Sidelock
****
Offline
Sidelock
****

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,284
My understanding is that it was the Birmingham trade, as most were, I've seen top best Lancasters with prefix zero too so not just mid grade.

T

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 40
LeFusil Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 40
T,
I was hoping to find out exactly "who" made the guns for Lancaster. AA Brown, Leonard, etc. More specifically, the self-openers, I've never seen another Lancaster (Beesley) type self-opener with another makers name on it, have you?
I did read a short article noting that F. Beesley did produce a few guns utilizing his patent No.425 of 1884 though, never seen one, but they do exist.

When you mention seeing "best" Lancasters with prefix zero, are you saying you've seen Lancaster Model A's and 12/20's with the 0 prefix? I have not, but I'll admit, I've only seen a few 12/20's and a few Model A's. Interesting.

Dustin

Last edited by LeFusil; 03/11/11 02:49 PM.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 311
Likes: 3
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 311
Likes: 3
Fredrick Beesley built some (maybe all) the 0 prefix Lancasters. I'll look up the supporting reference when I get home.
I have Charles Lancaster SN 07408. It is a Beesley built self opener BLE. It is the wrist breaker action.
You can see it on the Heritage Guns website Back Catalog listing (below the current stock list).

http://heritageguns.co.uk/hgframset.htm


Joe

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,469
Likes: 3
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,469
Likes: 3
Webley & Scott made guns for Lancaster. Lets face it they made guns for every body.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 278
Likes: 1
Sidelock
*
Offline
Sidelock
*

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 278
Likes: 1
hello,
i have two circa 1902 lancasters.neither of them have
O prefix numbers,however both are built using webley
a&w 51 actions with webley fences,top lever and screw grip.
purchased from webley and completed by lancaster?
both have london proof and bond st address.
cheers

ps both guns look identical to guns in 1914 webley catalogue and
i would have said lancaster only added name and address,but
no O prefix?

Last edited by Mr W martin; 03/11/11 03:47 PM.

NA
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 42
Likes: 6
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 42
Likes: 6
According to Diggory Hadoke's book, William Baker made some guns for C. Lancaster. It does not state which models.

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 749
Likes: 10
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 749
Likes: 10
It is my understanding that the '0' series guns were all made by Beesley using his patents including his interceptor sear, 'self opening' action (often known at the 'wrist breaker') etc and can be found in both boxlock (see Joe's post above) and backaction sidelock forms. David Baker mentions this and says that he assumes that 'a deal was struck between HAA Thorn ('Charles Lancaster') and Beesley'. I had this information from a couple of other sources but am damned if I can remember where! Nigel Brown mentions the '0' prefix but does not comment on its significance other than that the guns were outsourced.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 40
LeFusil Offline OP
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,826
Likes: 40
Thank you guys. Toby, dont feel all that bad, I can't remember where I read that information either, but I know I read it somewhere! I just perused through some books and articles and none of them mention the "who", they just seem to mention that the "0" guns were indeed made by somebody other than Lancasters.

The notion that the "body" action guns were made by F. Beesely suits me just fine, that's quite a pedigree.

I just acquired gun #07825, #1 of a pair, "body action".

Dustin

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610
Sidelock
**
Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610
Dustin,more research may be needed here. Beesley's shop was very small and capable of producing only small numbers of guns each year. Looking at the records in Brown's book show years where sales were below 50 and even 30 guns. But he was known for licensing his patents to others. Judging from the number of wrist breakers we see on the market today there must of been a considerable amount made and sold back then.So I can't see Beesley being the source for Lancaster's O grade guns. There must be other clues.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2021 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.052s Queries: 35 (0.026s) Memory: 0.8476 MB (Peak: 1.8990 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2021-10-18 14:56:31 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS