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Forums10
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,260 Likes: 510 |
I was under the impression that Chas. Lancaster guns with a "0" in the prefix were not actually made in the Lancaster factory at 151 New Bond St. Most of these types of guns being "body action" type guns or mid-grade sidelocks. Does anyone here have a good idea of who was contracted or sourced to build these "O" prefix guns for Lancasters? I've noticed that still all of the guns that I've looked at with "0" prefix still bear London proof marks, I've never seen one with Birmingham proofs. Any help, thoughts or good info is of course, greatly appreciated.
Dustin
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,284 |
My understanding is that it was the Birmingham trade, as most were, I've seen top best Lancasters with prefix zero too so not just mid grade.
T
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,260 Likes: 510 |
T, I was hoping to find out exactly "who" made the guns for Lancaster. AA Brown, Leonard, etc. More specifically, the self-openers, I've never seen another Lancaster (Beesley) type self-opener with another makers name on it, have you? I did read a short article noting that F. Beesley did produce a few guns utilizing his patent No.425 of 1884 though, never seen one, but they do exist.
When you mention seeing "best" Lancasters with prefix zero, are you saying you've seen Lancaster Model A's and 12/20's with the 0 prefix? I have not, but I'll admit, I've only seen a few 12/20's and a few Model A's. Interesting.
Dustin
Last edited by LeFusil; 03/11/11 02:49 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 331 Likes: 6 |
Fredrick Beesley built some (maybe all) the 0 prefix Lancasters. I'll look up the supporting reference when I get home. I have Charles Lancaster SN 07408. It is a Beesley built self opener BLE. It is the wrist breaker action. You can see it on the Heritage Guns website Back Catalog listing (below the current stock list). http://heritageguns.co.uk/hgframset.htmJoe
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,520 Likes: 71 |
Webley & Scott made guns for Lancaster. Lets face it they made guns for every body.
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Posts: 310 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 310 Likes: 11 |
hello, i have two circa 1902 lancasters.neither of them have O prefix numbers,however both are built using webley a&w 51 actions with webley fences,top lever and screw grip. purchased from webley and completed by lancaster? both have london proof and bond st address. cheers ps both guns look identical to guns in 1914 webley catalogue and i would have said lancaster only added name and address,but no O prefix?
Last edited by Mr W martin; 03/11/11 03:47 PM.
NA
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 102 Likes: 47
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 102 Likes: 47 |
According to Diggory Hadoke's book, William Baker made some guns for C. Lancaster. It does not state which models.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 775 Likes: 35
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 775 Likes: 35 |
It is my understanding that the '0' series guns were all made by Beesley using his patents including his interceptor sear, 'self opening' action (often known at the 'wrist breaker') etc and can be found in both boxlock (see Joe's post above) and backaction sidelock forms. David Baker mentions this and says that he assumes that 'a deal was struck between HAA Thorn ('Charles Lancaster') and Beesley'. I had this information from a couple of other sources but am damned if I can remember where! Nigel Brown mentions the '0' prefix but does not comment on its significance other than that the guns were outsourced.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,260 Likes: 510 |
Thank you guys. Toby, dont feel all that bad, I can't remember where I read that information either, but I know I read it somewhere! I just perused through some books and articles and none of them mention the "who", they just seem to mention that the "0" guns were indeed made by somebody other than Lancasters.
The notion that the "body" action guns were made by F. Beesely suits me just fine, that's quite a pedigree.
I just acquired gun #07825, #1 of a pair, "body action".
Dustin
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610 |
Dustin,more research may be needed here. Beesley's shop was very small and capable of producing only small numbers of guns each year. Looking at the records in Brown's book show years where sales were below 50 and even 30 guns. But he was known for licensing his patents to others. Judging from the number of wrist breakers we see on the market today there must of been a considerable amount made and sold back then.So I can't see Beesley being the source for Lancaster's O grade guns. There must be other clues.
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