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Joined: Jul 2009
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Stranger still that no one mentions Boss....

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Sidelock
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ditto Piotti.
Who own modern Boss's especially O/U and use them a lot have to know how breakables they are.
Looking at Jaguars and Defenders I can't figure out how englishmen could make something best today.
"I'm blind, I can't hear..." wink


Geno.
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Originally Posted By: Chuck H
Since you put the fork in the road, I'll take it. grin
On the subject of coil springs vs. cantilevered leaf springs; I think there's enough evidence to say that the coil is a more easily designed and manufactured spring and resultantly more reliable spring.

I forget the exact date, something like 1915, the US military decreed that it would only accept guns that used coil springs. This resulted in many sporting arms doing internal changes to replace leaf springs. This was mainly driven by high volume manufacturing methods of the day.

Pete

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The older London makers hands down. They have been building guns for the most dangerous game for far longer than any other maker.
I agree that the guns built in Italy have surpassed the London makers in the looks and durability department but no one has ever came to close to matching the perfect balance and handling of the English gun.

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Sidelock
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Originally Posted By: treblig1958
no one has ever came to close to matching the perfect balance and handling of the English gun.

Oh yea, we forgot about Perazzi. Not the best of cause, but all sportsmen hate it for worst handling and balance smile
How many best English guns you saw at World Championships? They lost everything.
Listen, I don't want to fight for Italians, but what you say is nonsence having nothing in common with reality.
I guess you are just petty bourgeois smile


Geno.
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I would agree with most of the posts with the exception of the Purdey and Holland guns. I have personally owned 1 used Purdey.
I have friends and clients who own new Purdeys and Hollands and for the stunning prices they paid for them, I have not seen great fit and finish. Too over priced and I personally believe that they owe much of these prices based on their.

I had a friend who owned a Peter Nelson gun and it put a Purdey and Holland to shame


John boyd


John Boyd
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And those skeet events are really dangerous. Were losing men left and right at these events!!! Safety has to be stepped up.
Geno, anyone can build a durable gun if your only concern is to stand there and shoot at a target and you dont have to lug it around with you through 110 degree heat and 90% humidity all day. Hunting is just one test of a guns all around construction but hunting dangerous game is the ultimate test of that construction. The English guns have been proving themselves against dangerous game longer than anyone and they have a really good track record. And that track record is, most of the people that have used them have survived to write books on their experiences, thats all anyone needs to know.

Granted Perazzi makes a world class gun that is a perfect blend of balance, handling and durability.
But if you note that a hunter will use a Remington or a Cooper or a Winchester or a whole host of firearms to hunt with, but when that hunter wounds an animal its the PH thats going into the thick stuff first and he has an English built double in his hands. That should be the ultimate indication of top quality.

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About ten years ago David McKay Brown said his greatest competition wasn't Holland and Holland, Purdey, or the Italian bespoke makers, but Beretta! David doesn't judge on the appearance of the gun, but as a gunmaker, he looks at the design and quality of the materials in the gun. The Beretta and Browning designs have been proven over decades of service to withstand the heaviest loads under the most trying circumstances. With that said, I think the best guns in the world would start with one of these actions in the white. Covered with insane engraving and wood porn of your choice.


-Shoot Straight, IM
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Originally Posted By: obsessed-with-doubles

SDH makes some good points about Italian sidelocks in Double Guns and Custom Gunsmithing. You can read his chapter on the subject here:
OWD

Or you could buy the book at my web site and read the whole story....

Here is the Real Deal!




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Quote:
Or you could buy the book at my web site and read the whole story....


and it is an excellent "what is really going on inside the gun" read, too


Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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