doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com need info. on an a richard 12 guage sxs shotgun

i just picked up this a richard belgium sxs hammer shot gun. i was under the impression they are a garden variety entrance type gun.at leased from what i have read. my question is did they also make a higher grade? this one has 32" barrels in fine condition marked fine damascus steel on the rib. the top rib is swamped with fine pattern. it has double under locking lugs with a greenier crossbolt. every screw is in tune. pointers are engraved on both side plates with fine border engraving and scroll engraving on the rest of the side plates. the body of the action is very finely engraved as are the hammers. the trigger guard is also finely eng. with a pheasant. the butt plate and grip cap are buffalo horn finely checkerd. screws are also in tune. the stocks are exceptioal burled english walnut. the forend has a engraved pull release. the proofs are starr over v crown over elg in oval over j. it was to be a restoration project but much to nice to play with. my question is do i have an unusual a richards? it just seems to fine a shotgun in fit and finish to be an entrance quality gun.

Can you show us a pic of the barrel flats and watertable?
Mike

You're not going to believe this, but just a few days ago I was skimming through some old periodicals, organizing the library, and I hit on a short article about Richard guns. Not many made, very high quality. That was the gist of the article, which I didn't fully read because I was,like I said, trying to organize my massive mess of books and magazines. And something told me I should put it aside for later.

Of course, I didn't and, of course I can't remember which periodical it was in, let alone which issue.

Very sorry I didn't follow through on the obvious cosmic imperative. But I think you can still be sure that it is a very fine piece which is also quite rare.

Also, this might be a logjam in my aging brain, but I think there were TWO Richards, bro & bro or father and son. Maybe

There is, of course Westley Richards (who never signed any way Westley Richards) of Birmingham, William Richards (a distant cousin to Westley and one always happy to have his signage of W. Richards confused with Westley) of Preston/Liverpool, and W. Richards guns of Belgium. The English made guns are all good. The Belgian guns are usually a basic American hardware store farmer grade tool. I've not the slightest doubt that the makers of Belgian W. Richards could get out a first rate gun if they could find a buyer to foot the bill of a first rate price. This is a classic example of confusing a name with the Original Quality of the gun. Congratulations on having the good sense to recognize the gun's quality, despite the name, and ask about it.

Yes, Rocketman, but unless we see the proofmarks we will never know if it is a W Richards Liverpool Brum gun, or a farmer's special marked ELG on the flats, from Liege?.
Whatever one says about the cheap or expensive Belgian guns, they all have proofmarks which tell the tale.
Well, almost, I have a SLNE 12 bore with English proofs and an unknown English name on the rib, but this gun was made in Belgium, I'm sure
The lock mechanics are really weird, never saw anything like them.
Made in Belgium, proofed in England, unknown Brit maker's name.
Where do you put that on your unique value scale, which I find most useful for the "normal" English gun, like my William Evans.
I'd like to thank you for the efforts you put in to your value scale and your MOI work, I was most impressed to see your MOI machine at Flatwater a couple of years ago
Mike

Like the Krakow Kid says " you are not going to believe this" but there will be TWO "W.Richards" at a local gun auction next Saturday here in town. Both Hammer guns. I havnt seen them yet but I would imagine they are Belgian in origin...One is a 10, the other a 12..

this gun is marked [a. richard] on both sideplates and is a hammer gun. i have some fine sxs shotguns w c scott etc. and this one is of the same quality as i had said i thought it would be a garden grade gun but it isnt. the stocks would be considered exhibition burl walnut grade today. it is a belgium gun and so proofed [* over v] [crown over e l g in an oval] [j under oval] chokes both 18.3 an assortment of other #s and scrips. i would guess it is a water fowl gun with 32 in. barrels and weighing 9 pds plus. i would really like to know more about this gun. just one other point the engraving is very well executed with the scroll work and the pointers standing on a knol in a field is very fine.

A low quality A. Richard



If you would post ultra close up images of every mark on the watertable and barrels we might be able to ID the maker and date of proof

This cylinder bore cheap Belgian 28-gauge marked just RICHARD was given me by my friend the late Henry Thomas of Federal Oak Farm, Charles County, Maryland.



It had been Henry's Father's quail gun. For over fifty year Henry raised and hunted over fine English Setters with the 20-gauge Fox-Sterlingworth his Father gave him for his 21st birthday in 1938. Henry also gave me the S-worth. I never shot the RICHARD, but I know Henry shot a few rounds of skeet with it. I shot several limits of Dove with Henry's S-worth. I passed both guns on to a young hunter and Setter man in Charles County when I left the mid-Atlantic area. Figured they needed to stay near home.

that is much the same gun except this one has the cross bolt to help lock the barrels down. the water table is marked. [belgium] serial# 24102 [* over v over a tower ?] #995 this is also on the barrels. this gun is quality all the way thru. even unseen forend screws are all in time. it may be a entrie gun but if so some one took a lot of extra time in wood to metal fit, timing every screw and excellent engraving. the wood is superb,even the butt plate and pg cap screws are timed and made of buffalo horn. i think this may be an unusual a richard