doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com What Rifle Did Sgt York Use?

MP "I don't think that anyone knows for sure what rifle York used, a 1903 or a 1917."


Waterman "Back to MP's comment about Sgt. York. I came across a discussion of Alvin York and what rifle he used somewhere, but I can't recall just where somewhere was. The discussion was that York used a 1917 Enfield because his entire unit was armed (Division? Brigade?) with 1917s. The same discussion said they used 1903s in the Sgt. York movie because everyone "knew" that York must have used a Springfield and because the movie prop house had Springfields.

That seemed a reasonable explanation at the time. I have since used both rifles on the target range (firing from the military prone position) and find I far prefer the 1917. Dig out your copy of Whelen's "The American Rifle" and read what he has to say on pages 126 & 127."

J.D. Steele, "The 1903 vs 1917 question is one I'd like some more info on, as is the question of his use of his 1911 Colt. Even an average-to-poor issue 1911 is fully capable of center body hits at 50 yds and head shots at 25 yds.

I remember reading that A) he used a 1917 because that's what his entire unit was issued and B) he used a 1903 because that's what his entire unit was issued.

As a battle rifle IMO the 1917 is far FAR superior to the 1903 but that's not the question. Details, we want more details"

This could go on for some time so I started a new thread.

Let us start with the basic information, what was the unit that York served in?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_C._York

Michael's Wikipedia citation pretty much says it all. The rifle was a 1917 Enfeld.

Note 19 on the wiki page says they have his 1917 at a Tenn University.

We all know that Wikipedia is not always right but I in this case believe the 1917 is correct. Everything I have ever read said the same. The movie was after all Hollyweerd can trust them.

I am open to having my opinion slamed if needed.

I like the line where he was yelling at the Germans to come down, that he didn't want to kill any more than he had to!

How do we know that the 82nd Division was armed with 1917 Enfields? Also, was it standard practice for all units within a division during WWI to be armed with the same rifle?

The Diary of Alvin York



MAY 21, 1918 LeHavre, France: So we got to France at Le Havre. There we turned in our guns and got British guns. Well, we went out from Le Havre to a little inland camp. I had taken a liking to my gun by this time. I had taken it apart and cleaned it enough to learn every piece and I could almost put it back together with my eyes shut. The Greeks and Italians were improving. They had stayed continuously on the rifle range for a month or two and got so they could shoot well. They were fairly good pals, too. But I missed the Tennesseans. I was the only mountaineer in the platoon. I didn't like the British guns so well. I don't think they were as accurate as our American rifles. Ho ho.

My buddies were some boys from the East. There was Corporal Murray Savage--he got killed in the Argonne-- and Harry Parsons from Brooklyn, New York. I think he was a vaudeville actor. And there were a lot of other Eastern boys who were in my platoon.

It sure was a mixed platoon, with the Greeks and Italians and New York Jews, and there were some Irish and one German. I sure did miss the mountain boys from Tennessee and Kentucky. But I got to like those other boys in my platoon. I was the largest in the platoon.

We got our first gas masks in Le Havre. I was still a private. The man in charge of my platoon was Lieutenant Stewart from Georgia. The company commander was Captain Danforth of Augusta, Georgia. Our platoon sergeants were Sergeant Early and Sergeant Harry Parsons.

Early was busted for being A.W.O.L. after we left Le Havre. After that he was acting corporal. He was a good soldier. Parsons was never busted. He was a good soldier, too. I was made a corporal just before we went into the St. Mihiel drive.

York did in fact use a Model 1917.

By the end of the Great War, the 1917 was the predominant U.S. rifle in Europe. An exception was the Marine Corps. All combat Marines in Europe used the Model 1903.

Agreed that the 1917 "Enfield" was a better practical battle rifle; the sights alone made it that. The much-derided 03A3 fixed that problem, tho.

Always amused by the memory of ARVN militia with '17 Enfields and '17 Colts--tiny troops with HUGE guns! However, Philippinos are generally small, and their pre-WWII army was mainly armed with these huge guns--didn't stop them from killing a lot of Japanese when they had decent leadership.

Are you refering to the Army of the Republic of Viet Nam? I saw lots of ARVNs, but never with M1917s or '17 Colts. M-1 Carbines and Garands is what I remember.

I've seen several things that suggest that the US soldiers picked up 1903's when they could.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_did_the_111th_Infantry_serve_during_World_War_1