S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
2 members (grouse28, 1 invisible),
213
guests, and
0
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums10
Topics39,036
Posts552,028
Members14,470
|
Most Online1,344 Apr 29th, 2024
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,254 Likes: 224
Sidelock
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,254 Likes: 224 |
Hi all, just curious to find out what you all think about the guns made by Charles Hellis? Good Guns, good quality pieces.
Any comments welcome.
Thanks as always!
Greg
Gregory J. Westberg MSG, USA Ret
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,284
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,284 |
Can be yes. Now owned by Greener I believe and has been for some time..or is that Hollis...can't remember
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,481 Likes: 136
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,481 Likes: 136 |
I owned a basic Hellis BLNE that was a solid gun. One design I've seen on Hellis guns, but not on many others from the UK, is a gun with a little metal plate added to the stock right behind the receiver. An attempt, I guess, to give somewhat the effect of a sideplated boxlock. Can't decide whether I like the look.
Last edited by L. Brown; 08/25/11 06:18 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,761 Likes: 111
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,761 Likes: 111 |
They made guns of all grades. They also had a large cartridge making concern that incorporated C.S.Rosson of Norwich. Gallyons bought out the Rossen bit but I think Watson Bros. in London had somehting to do with the Hellis name. Lagopus.....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,304 Likes: 585
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,304 Likes: 585 |
I owned a basic Hellis BLNE that was a solid gun. One design I've seen on Hellis guns, but not on many others from the UK, is a gun with a little metal plate added to the stock right behind the receiver. An attempt, I guess, to give somewhat the effect of a sideplated boxlock. Can't decide whether I like the look. The attempt was...to give the head of the stock more strength. Hellis believed in this. It looks nothing like what Cogswell & Harrison did to their boxlocks to attempt a cosmetic "sidelock" appearance. To my eye, the Hellis treatment is somewhat pleasing, they did it right and made it their own. I especially like the looks of the higher grade Hellis boxlocks with this treatment. Dustin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 707
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 707 |
Good points.
There is a Charles Hellis and an Isaac Hollis. They get confused often.
Hellis is a tier 3 birmingham maker. Hollis is an obscure tier 4 maker.
I've seen mid-grade quality Hollis guns, I've seen above average grade Hellis guns.
What's not to love about a quality British knockabout gun anyway? Beats the heck out of a modern Citori or Beretta for equal or less money in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,304 Likes: 585
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,304 Likes: 585 |
Hellis, to my knowledge was always a London based gunmaker (21 Shrewsbury Road, Westbourne Park, London) And Hollis was not an "obscure" maker, but a prolific maker. Tier 4? Hollis could make anything you wanted...as long as you had the coin. I've seen some guns by Hollis that could easily be called "Best" guns, true they made many more "colonial" or "farmer" grade guns, but they most definatly had the resources and skills to make extremely high quality guns.
Dustin
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 332 Likes: 6
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 332 Likes: 6 |
Hellis was in London. The guns I have seen/owned were sourced in Birmingham from Webley & Scott. Pre-WW2 boxlocks had Greener style 3rd fastners, my ca 1950 post war gun doesn't have the 3rd fastner. I found it on a rack next to some W&S 700s. They were the same except for the engraving and name on the barrels. The sideplated Hellis was $2000 less with than a "real" Webley BLE. I'd buy another if it came my way. Hellis was a large retailer of 2" 12s. I got a chance to handle one in the UK recently. It was really nice. I have been watching for a 12 SLE. The top grade guns are beautifully engraved. The lower grade guns are good values IMHO. The company still exists http://www.hellis.com/Joe
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 43 Likes: 2
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 43 Likes: 2 |
Charles Hellis is perhaps best known for the “Featherweight” a sidelock or a side-plated boxlock engraved with crossed feathers frequently featuring short 26 or 28 inch barrels. Like E. J. Churchill the house of Hellis was an advocate of short barrels; catalogues claimed, “…we have continually recommended the use of the shorter barrels, and for many years past over 95% of the guns built by us have had 26-inch barrels.” Extant Hellis order forms suggest these were built in Birmingham by the likes of Arthur and William Howell.
I own a Charles Hellis two-inch gun I use for short range work such as quail over pointers which has 26 inch barrels and I asked Hellis researcher Terry Utterson about it. “Your gun no 4132 is described as a 12 bore A&D non ejector with 2 triggers, 26" barrels and 2" chambers. It was built and placed into stock on 21st March 1938 and sold in July of that year to Sumner Moore for Ł17.10.00. The gun came back into possession of Hellis some years later (possibly as a part exchange) and resold July 1946 to Dick for Ł37.10.00. The only extra information in the sales ledger is that the gun is described as a 'Reliable 2" non ejector! The 'Reliable' model was quite basic and, I would imagine, built to a price by any of the Birmingham makers to the trade specializing in 2" lightweight guns at that time, e.g. Skimin & Wood, G. S. Holloway and very possibly S. Wright and sons.”
Hellis models included the Premier, a “best quality” London pattern sidelock ejector, stocked to the fences which was represented as “The Perfect Specimen of the Gunmaker’s Craft.” The Mark Over, a moderately priced flat backed action sidelock “built on best lines.” The “Featherweight” a side plated boxlock which later became the “Windsor”. The “Utility” a “high grade Anson & Deeley gun” with a rib extension which became the “Universal” when that rib extension was removed and the “Plain Quality” which was re-branded as the “Standard.” This last model was described as “A Gun produced of first-class material by skilled workmen, for economy and ruggedness and intended for heavy usage.”
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 707
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 707 |
While Hellis was in London, I believe all the Chas. Hellis guns I've seen were Birmingham proofed.
As for the Isaac Hollis guns, I've seen a couple and they were crude hammer guns. While I'm sure others will point to exceptions, these were my experiences.
Certainly, a Hellis is worth more than a Hollis, all things being equal.
Hellis is certainly a tier-III maker (tier-II is the likes of Westley Richards, Lang, Atkin, Grant, Lancaster, Hussey, etc.)
Tier III makers would include: Greener, Pape, Egg, Osborne, Turner, Richards of Liverpool, Cogswell and Harrison, Playfair & Bentley, etc.
Naturally, in each class there were several grades and qualities but some firms are known for best guns, others are not.
|
|
|
|
|