doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Info need on my JP Sauer

I recently acquired a JP Sauer & Sohn 12 ga SxS. I am not sure as to which model it is, date of manufacture or worth. Also I would be curious as to any problems that can be seen. There is now rust and the mechanism is bank vault tight. Can Winchester quail loads be shot through this?

Can't see the proof marks on the barrel flats too well, but I don't think there is a shell length marking there, and since the gun was made approx 1923 it was made for 2 1/2" shells. So I would recommend you not use Win or other standard production shells in this gun. Check out the shells from RST with lower pressures. Lower pressures don't mean less effective, just more appropriate to the age of this gun and it's original design intentions. It is Sauer's base model gun and the wear indicates it has seen substantial use. I am not an appraiser but just looking at it I wouldn't pay more than about $500 for it.

My records from the Article in DGJ in 2004, indicates the gun was made in 1927. I would vote for one oz. loads only in something like Kemen or Rio 2 3/4x 1 oz . These are about 7000psi. Federal Top Gun 2 3/4x 1 oz are also soft.

Looks like a Model VIII to me, and if there's no 70mm stamp on the flats, the chambers are almsot definitly 65 mm (2 1/2"). Someone's sure been inside the locks, may be only to replace a broken spring. I wouldn't use even low-pressure 2 3/4 shells in it, since older Sauers tend to have rather short forcing cones and the pressure rising effect of longer shells is the more noticable the shorter the cones are. Check out the condition of the wood, these guns "like" to develop cracks through the wrist with hot loads.

The Sauer made sporting weapon experienced proof in March of 1927. Interesting large and/or small crown(s). Like previously indicated, 65mm chambers but have a gander at the extractor in search of a 70(70mm) stamp, although I think not. Nice straight stock with swivels.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Note that 65mm converts to 2.559" only .0035" off the 2 9/16" (2.5625") length shell. 65mm seems to be the "Old" standard length of European shells wile it was also the "Old" 16ga standard in the US.

W W Greener stated that at least by the time of his 9th edition book that most British guns labeled as 2�" actually had chambers of 2 9/16"-2 5/8" instead of the nominally listed 2�". Some very early guns may well have the actual 2�" chambers as well as smaller gauges. He also seems to indicate that 2 3/4" was a standard for Pigeon Guns.

Very early on US chambers were basically standarized @ 2 3/4" or 2 5/8" in 12ga, 2 9/16" in 16 & 2�" in 20.

My J P Sauer & Son/VL&D Knock-About sidelock from ca 1902 has the 70 stamped on the extractor face as mentioned by Raimey. It is of about 7� lbs weight so most likely built as a waterfowl gun.

I'd say you have a scrivener's error on the 2.05625" there.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey Thanks;
A Zero at that point certainly makes a lot of difference, don't know why I hit it. Post corrected.

Oh, I know it all too well and even signing my fair share of scrivener's affidavits for the ever watchful barrister/solicitor, I still fall prey to the menacing clerical error.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Now I see the 3/27 on the barrel flats! Should have seen it the first time.