doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Hinge Pin CCH or no

Ken Eversull put a 20 b Purdey back 'on face' for me. He was recommended by David Trevallion. It was minimally 'off face'....and I didn't even know it as he was working on the trigger, but he laser welded the hook. Got it back and it is a lot tighter. Ken Eversull is a pro from everything I have heard. He also told me I would never be able to shoot this gun 'off face' in my lifetime...and I'm 52 yo.

You have had it done both ways.....?

If you had someone put in a new hinge pin, there is no need to file the worn barrel hook UNLESS you want more slop...........because the gun will still be loose...... you must first weld the barrel hook requiring the new fit......since most competent smiths laser or tig weld the hook, the hinge pin is left as it is..........therefore replacing the hinge pin would be a waste of time..............

Cheers,

I guess this is a matter of opinion. I've taken a number of hinge pins out of British guns and in no case were they particularly hard steel and all showed wear. The obvious reason that H&H referred Vol to Eversole is because it's too time consuming to fit a new pin and clients balk at the cost. With the advent of Tig and laser welding just refacing the hook and dressing down to fit the existing pin has become the "new" way. But it's not the best way. In a perfect world the surfaces of hook and pin would both be finished to a high polish and mate perfectly across the full width. The only way to get there is to fit a new pin and take the time making sure that the bearing surfaces of the pin fit tightly into the frame. That means the circumference of the pin head must fit tight and the thread have zero slop, in short it must be as near a perfect fit as possible. And you still have to make it a few thousands over to allow for final polishing. All this before you even start on the hook. A person picking up a new shotgun doesn't have a clue how many cycles of opening, closing and firing it will take before getting loose. It depends on the quality of unseen work. But when it does get loose, as surely it will, just getting the hook resurfaced and refitting it to a worn pin may be perfectly acceptable, most particularly if it's not your gun. But just because H&H says"do it" doesn't mean that's the best way to do it.
nial

PA24, surely you know that a new pin will be made bigger than the worn one. What kind of an idiot would make it the same size. In the past it was not uncommon for high end guns to come with a few sets of slightly bigger hinge pins in a little compartment of the gun case. If you are serious and not just trying to get a rise, I suspect you don't know as much about break open guns as you think you do.
nial

Nial:
Pins seldom wear because they are harder than the soft steel barrel hooks, unless the gun is full of dirt loaded grease or mis-use, but extra screw in pins with shoulders were supplied with some guns a long time ago........with your experience you surely know there were so many problems trying to fit these pins by shade tree smiths and non-mechanical gun owners, with little things like rust, removing nice engraved covers etc..........and surely you know that an oversize thru pin won't fit in an exact machined thru hole......(long cross side to side pins).....?.........After all, we don't need to know very much, thank heavens, because we have you here to tell us everything..............

**See the thread "Welding Up Hook On Barrels"....9-20-08.....this board.....for those of you that are 'really' interested......comments from smiths, welders, how they do it in Italy, England and in the trade everywhere, check it out..........

OR:

**"Re-jointing actions by Ken Eversull".....7-21-09......this board.............

Best,

Why do threads end up like this? I usually resort to asking the experts here. Of course that'll be countered by the "experts there". So, I've mad my decision it's going to be put through with the rest of the action? Why? Here is the rationale from Price street, agree or not is up to you...but I'm going with 250 years of heritage ok? :-)

"Usually the hinge pins are kept in. Especially on guns that rely on the hinge pin for structural formation such as some from Webley and Scott and W.C Scott for example. Also, keeping them means that the whole unit is cased and there is little room for movement, the stronger the structure the less likely of problems. The plug (with engraving) is also coloured. The notion of having this nitre blued or blued is false on English guns, it's an after "bake" second rate solution".

That's it

T

PS I asked about this constant "brittle as glass" notion and I was confronted with a rolling of the eyes looking to the heavens.

Leaving the pin in makes perfect sense to me. Go for it!

Why not make a new JOINT pin ,so when you come to free and fit after rehardning you have something to black down and pull up?

Thanks for setting things straight Tony with your visit to Price St.....for all the experts 'over here' to see........

Cheers mate,

It has been my experience with CC Hardeners that they like for the hinge pin to remain in as your CC Hardener has confirmed. My experience also has been that the pins are a devil to remove from the action after re hardening. Takes the largest turn screw you have in your gunmakers brace and then some.

The next Holland style action I have re hardened, I am going to make a slave hinge pin to use for the process and for throw away afterwards. Small actions such as a round body back lock hammergun action are just best to leave the original pin in the action, re hard, and if in the future a re jointing is needed you can weld up the hook.

Do you have a lathe where you can make such a slave pin?

Regards;
BV