doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Question: double guns and slugs

I've never hunted big game with a shotgun because I never thought I had the right tool. Does anyone have data or suggestions about slugs in vintage doubles? Is it ever acceptable? If yes, what are the features you look for in your vintage gun to attempt this?

Is there such a thing as a vintager pressure slug? Anyone load and regulate to do such a thing?

Again, I know nothing of slugs but was considering the RBL slug gun for large game where rifles are not permitted. I'd much rather use a vintage gun if I knew the caveats and considerations.

Well I've fired slugs thru a number of doubles and it's a hit or miss proposition. Seriously though, most SxS guns are lousy at it but now and again you'll find a winner. I once had a Beretta GR2 in 20 gauge that would put ordinary Foster type slugs in pretty near the same hole at 30 yards and exactly where it was aiming too.
I now have a Merkel 20 gauge that puts a slug right on the aiming point at 30 yards from the bottom barrel.
nial

As was said, it's really a hit or miss proposition In my experience, continental doubles are more likely to shoot slugs well than American doubles. Try the Brenneke standard IIRC it's loaded to 1050 bar.

I wouldn't use slugs in any gun originally proofed for 2 1/2" 1 1/8oz.

YMMV

I second that, Mr Thayer

Eley offered 380 grain 'Anglia' slug with Vo 1450fps and muzzle energy of 1772ft/lb. Not sure what they use now but proly Brenneke slugs. I have some reduced velocity factory classic Brenneke slugs but have not tried any and sold all my sxs guns. If I were to roll some lower pressure slugs for ole' "for balle" double I suspect 'Aero-slug' would be at the top of my slug component list.

Sellier & Bellot do make a 12 bore Brenneke slug round for 2 1/2" (65mm.) chambers. I got a load of them for someone to try out in a Holland & Holland Paradox. We got the same accuracy with them as with the grossly expensive H&H Paradox ammunition. They were intended for wild boar shooting in Europe. Lagopus.....

Lagopus,

Would that shell be okay with Damascus barrels? With what choke? Would the gun have to say it is safe for buck and ball?

Very interested to know more.

Rookhawk, I have a box in front of me now. They come in packs of five and with a 32gram (1 1/8th. ounce) Brenneke slug. They have the CIP mark which is the European proof acceptance mark to show that they do not exceed pressures for the gun for which they are intended; in this case any 12 bore gun with minimum 2 1/2" chambers that is 'in proof' and nitro proofed. Our rules of proof here in the U.K. and most of Europe don't distinguish between damascus and steel barrels provided that they are suitably proofed. There is no warning on the pack concerning choke constriction. I believe that the fins on the Brenneke slug are designed to pass through full choke anyway.

If you do manage to source some and order them make sure that they are the ones for 2 1/2" chambers as I believe that they make them for 2 3/4" as well. I have some 16 bore Brenneke slug loads by RWS and have them in both chamber lengths that I used in a drilling. Lagopus.....

Rookhawk, is your damascus gun OK with modern shotshells in 2 1/2" legth ? best Mike

Yes, you can.
in the former USSR most of the big game was shot with slugs from double guns (repeaters being a rarity, and rifles all but banned).
Most of folks had to use the same gun for birds, big game, whatever.
Lessons learned:
- accuracy is relative. Putting your shots in a 12 inch circle at 35 meters will bring you to the vitals of any big-game animal up to 50 meters, and shots over that are unrealistic.
- most doubles can do better than that. 6-inch circles are common, and 4-inchers can hardly be improved upon further.
- pattern the shotgun with slugs just like you would with a rifle. Shoot all available slugs to find what the gun likes, then vary the powder load (staying within safe limits, of course) up and down until you arrive at best groups.
- your biggest fear is the ring bulge in the choke area. some barrels just aren't made to be used with slugs. It mostly concerns thin-walled tightly-choked guns. DDR-made Merkel O/Us were a special pain in this respect
- for similar reason, don't shoot slugs in a gun that you value for its long-range patterns. Looks like slugs wear out choke area very quickly.
- if you have to shoot a slug from a tighter-than-tight gun, one tip is to use underbore Brenneke, say, 16-gauge slug in a 12-gauge gun. To have the slug centered, place it in a plastic shot cup.
- surprisingly, a chamber burst with slugs is unlikely, even with overbore powder load (some chaps here used to load a Brenneke with 1 1/2 to 2 times the max powder charge - did you know that USSR boys were raised on pretty suicidal role models? - but the guns didn't blow).
- however, your second biggest fear should be a loose action. A gun shot with slugs will shoot itself loose noticably faster than the one used with shot loads of the same weight with the same powder charge.

all things being equal:
- the shorter the barrels, the better
- the heavier the barrels, the better

Constriction of the barrels is the most controvercial issue. - the less constriction, the better, however, you generally want some constriction in the gun, IC or light modified. Doubles defy rules, and sometimes you'll get a light ling-barreled full-choked one put all bullets in the same hole.

An person experienced in shadow-ring test for gun barrels can tell if a gun is going to shoot well with slugs. The critical area to look at is the forcing cone, you don't want even a hint that it joins the barrel at an angle.

If you're considering buying an inexpensive vintage sbs to shoot slugs from, take a look at Baikal Izh 54. They are proven slugsters here. Izh 12 o/u works even better individually, but getting both barrels to shoot to the same POI is harder.

Finding the right slug is another story.