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Sidelock
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Originally Posted By: Rookhawk
If Elsies are so mechanically superior, why didn't anyone copy the locks off patent as has been done to Holland, Fox, Dickson and others?

Fox?!? Trust me, you don't want to compare.......

Short answer for the others, both had plenty of associated UK-upper-crust charisma/braggin' rights, apparently enough to overcome the daunting economics of making sidelock and round-action guns with leaf springs.
Regards, Joe


You can lead a man to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America!
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Sidelock
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We remain OT, but relevant to the discussion
Chapter 15 of Shotgun Technicana by McIntosh and Trevallion discusses Top Fasteners and specifically the Alexander Brown patent, and the almost identical Ansley Fox patent.

"The most basic principle in fastening any hinge is that the farther the fastener is from the hinge itself, the greater the mechanical advantage. Thats why door latches are placed where they are. In a gun, the action bar and breech face form two sides of a right triangle, so that the top or the breech face is farther from the hinge pin, in straight-line distance, than the bottom. In a side-by-side gun theres an additional advantage in that a top fastener is a bit more efficient in overcoming the effects of barrel flip-for the gun, if not for the shooter. With a top fastener, the barrels still flip downward on firing, but the action bar flexes less, and the fastener keeps the top of the barrels from pulling away from the breech face."

"The most interesting of the American top fasteners is the L.C. Smiths patented by Alexander Brown in 1883. Where all the others used either Greeners transverse bolt, some sort of flat bolt or hook on the front end of the top lever, or both, Brown designed his bolt as a steel cylinder that turns on a horizontal axis. A slot filed into the cylinder forms the actual hook, which fits into a slot in the rib extension. The cylinder also engages a lip at the rear of the extension as a secondary bite. L.C. Smith described this arrangement as a double cross-bolt, although double rotary bolt would be more accurate."

More here http://www.lcsmith.org/faq/rotarylocking.html

Last edited by Drew Hause; 10/23/11 10:50 AM.
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http://www.lcsmith.org/images/mechanisms/Rotarybolt72.jpg

Still not able to fully visualize/internalize the mechanism, but it's unlike anything I've seen. Pretty ingenious.

On topic content: L.C. Smith is now owned by Marlin. Do they use the same mechanism?

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Sidelock
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Marlin Firearms Company retains the rights to the name "L.C. Smith" and in 2005 introduced 12 and 20 gauge guns made in Italy by Fausti Stefano under the name L.C. Smith. In 2007, they offered a 28 gauge and a .410's made in Spain by Zabala.
Both the over-unders and side-by-sides are box locks, and are in no way mechanically related to the guns designed by W.H. Baker and Alexander Brown, and sold by L.C. Smith Maker, Syracuse New York (1883-1892), Hunter Arms Co., Fulton New York (1892-1945), L.C. Smith Gun Co., Inc. owned by Marlin (1945-1950), nor the Marlin L.C. Smith (1968-1972).

Marlin discontinued the use of the L.C. Smith brand name in 2011.

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Thanks - I figured as much. I really had no illusion that it was the original mechanism but had to ask.

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Let's maybe dial it down a notch?

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Keep the dialogue above board and civil. Right Jane, you ignorant slut?

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Originally Posted By: steve white
Let's maybe dial it down a notch?


Originally Posted By: Rookhawk
Keep the dialogue above board and civil. Right Jane, you ignorant slut?

Where did THIS come from? Just color me confused, but I still like good case colors/colours(grin) and most L.C.Smiths.
Regards, Joe


You can lead a man to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America!
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As Joe said. Whitey

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My satire was lost on J.D.

Classic debate format on the early SNL skit starring Dan Akroyd and Jane Curtin.

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