doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Lefever Damascus

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7858248
This Lefever double with damascus barrels is currently up for sale at the above site. Please click on the auction link then scroll down till you come to the picture showing the hole (delamination?) in the barrel.
I'd be interested in others comments regarding this?
Jim

Jim, check this out

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...p;rd=1&rd=1

The Lefever at Auction Arms is not shootable, as is. That hole is not weldable either, IMO. He's also wrong about it being an antique. It was made in 1903-4. IMO, its only value would be for parts, not the barrel.
The barrel on E-bay has been cut, at 27", and fitting barrels on Lefevers is not usually an easy job. It's not worth much, either.

The first one is twist, not damascus & unless the laws have changed would require an FFL or C&R for interstate shipping. I would agree it's probably unsafe to shoot.
The second one is for a Lefever with in-frame ejectors.

Just curious Jim, why wouldn't it be weldable?

That Lefever has what was called non-twisted brown damascus. It was also referred to as tor or tordu by the Belgian makers. This is bottom of the barrel stuff, the cheapest thing on the market. A set of barrels like this would sell for $.90 around 1900.

I do not believe I have seen a Lefever with barrels like those. It would be interesting to see the top rib. Uncle Dan was very proud of a matting machine he purchased that gave a unique pattern to the rib. Besides the crack, there appears to be pitting.

Pete

I think the rib is probably similar or identical to just about every sideplate Lefever made after the very early 90s. For $100 bucks, this is a pretty useful parts gun. It may sell for much more.

I said the hole is not weldable because it's so big. I'm not a barrel welder, that was just my opinion.

That pattern is virtually identical to every H grade Lefever I have except one (it's steel). Lefever in their catalogs lists it as "Best London Twist". In Bob Elliot's book he quotes 4 articles from "The Sporting Goods Gazette" of Feb, Mar & Sept 1898 and June 1899 announcing the introduction of the new "H" grade Lefever. In these articles the gun was referred to as having "Twist" bbls. In William Greener's book "The Gun 1834" he described bbls being laminated & wrapped into a tube as "Plain Twist" & those being laminated & then twisted in the bar prior to wraping as "Damascus Twist". Whether this is technically correct or not is of little importance at this point in time. This is the way the gunmakers themselves referred to their bbls & to do otherwise now simply causes confusion & no on knows what type of bbl is being referred to. You can look at guns from the US, England or the "Continent" & those having been twisted prior to wrapping are referred to as damascus, those not being twisted but simply wrapped are referred to as twist. Note the Parker PH was listed by Parker as having twist bbls (it was not twisted in the bar but simply wrapped around a mandrel). This "Plain Twist" is also what is often referred to as "Wire Twist" though it was not actually wound from wires but as only the thin edges of the laminates are visable it gives that appearence. None of these bbls not being twisted in the bar were referred to by the gunmaker's (at least not quality makers, I haven't examined every clunker ever made) as Damascus.

Assuming that twist H grade barrels are in decent condition, are they any less sound and shootable than Damascus in good condition? Do any of you shoot your H grade twist Lefevers? Rich