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Forums10
Topics38,495
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1 |
Cman,no proof marks are visible in your photos, only what is surely the marque (initials of the maker between the 444 and 1955, an M with an F and an R. There should be Italian proof marks like the ones you can see here under Marchi dell'Italia: http://www.earmi.it/armi/database/marchi7.htmJC(AL)
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance."ť Charles Darwin
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,598 |
Well, the markings or lack of them are very unusual. I do believe that the 1955 is the date of manufacture. I have seen a Beretta was marked like that. However, on most Italian guns there should be a date code:  For another on-line resource for proof marks: https://www.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdfPete
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,127 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,127 Likes: 198 |
Gil and Jay Cee, $25,000 and even more expensive Berettas have monobloc barrels (not my preference, but a fact of life) and there are many Kersten bolted guns that have no under-locking lugs as well as many that do have them. Now that someone has found the maker on a list of Italian makers, the gun becomes less of a mystery gun. The bass ackwards trunnion system is just one maker's attempt to be different. Unless the receptacle for the hinge assembly is replaceable, fixing one of these things once it gets a little loose would be a machinist's nightmare. The Beretta, Remington, Krieghoff trunnion system is so much more gunsmith friendly.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,379 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,379 Likes: 105 |
Agree with Pete that 1955 is likely the date of manufacture. I too have seen Italian guns with the year in Arabic numerals rather than Roman numerals. And I've also seen combinations of the two, like XX7. Leave it to the Italians!
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Right on, Eightbore.
How the heck do you put this gun back on the face? Do you weld up the trunnion? I bet it would be a major job to get things to fit right again.
OWD
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,036 Likes: 48
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,036 Likes: 48 |
Suspect reworking the Kersten style bolting system would be the 'fix' IF it ever shot loose. The unique hinge leads me to believe it was a prototype. It may never have been proofed since it wasn't made for commercial sale. Perhaps the inventor/makers personal gun.
Interesting and unique. I'd like to hear the rest of the story if it could ever be discovered...
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,127 Likes: 198
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,127 Likes: 198 |
Actually, properly hardened trunnion inserts in Berettas probably will never need to be replaced. My 680 series trunnions are still very tight after tens of thousands of rounds and a replacement of the locking pin assembly. However, it is uncomfortable to have a wearing part in a shotgun locking mechanism that is not easily replaced. Not only are the trunnions in the gun being discussed a bit of a nightmare in appearance, Kersten locking pins are another nightmare for the average (or above average) gunsmith. This gun, beautiful as it is, could be quite a project once it gets a bit on the loose side.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
I'd bet that the forgings and barrels came from Ferlach. I'd also suggest, but not bet, that they might have been a gun in the white when they crossed. The prototype theory seems plausable, too. This could have been an experiment or a masterpiece (one of the sons turning master) that went right and was judged worth of the serious decoration. Note that the engraving in 1955 would not have been that big a deal as engravers then were not considered, or paid, as the artisans they now are.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1 |
When off face maybe you could reduce the size of the trunnions,
thread them on the outside and fabricate a new trunnion with
internal thread to fit over. Or even epoxy on a new trunnion
over the reduced one, doing away with the thread making complication.
Just an idea from a total layman.
Surely easier said than done.
JC(AL)
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance."ť Charles Darwin
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 568
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 568 |
Cementman, A most interesting gun. I like the engraving and it certain features certainly speak of quality. Was your friend/employer a left handed shooter? It appears from the photos that the gun is cast on. As to value as requested in your original post it would depend on what interest it generates. This board has a For Sale section if you are really interested in selling it. I know that if it were in my area I would give it a serious look. Have you weighed it? Do you know the dimensions of lop ( Length of Pull ), DAC ( Drop @ Comb ), DAH ( Drop @ Heel )? Certainly it is a different and possibly unique.
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