doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Belgian - Original Diana cal.16

I'm interested in some information about a double barreled hammer shotgun named Original Diana cal. 16 / 70(65 maybe, I'm not sure). It's made in Belgium, some when in the beginning of the last century. Because I found Proof stamps on the barrels and the head of the gun that implies that this gun is authentic and from that time. The gun is in very good condition.
I'm informed that Beretta is making this Diana double barreled hammer shotgun in calibers .12 and .20 (which can be seen on h**p://www.beretta.com/index.aspx?m=74&idc=1&ids=55) and it costs around 65000 €.
I can't find any more information about the original, but it would be very interesting to see comparison of the value of the new one and the original one from the old time.

I would appreciate very much if somebody can help me find or share more information.

I expect both having the name Diana is simply a coincidence. Photos of the Original Diana hammergun you mention would be helpful, or at least a good description of the proofmarks. If it's early 20th century, the gauge will be marked 16 over a C inside a diamond.

Henri Pieper of Liege, Belgium sold guns marked as "Original Diana". All of these I am familiar with however also had the Pieper name on them as well. these were guns built under Piepers original patent for the "Mono-block" bbl construction. To my knowledge Pieper never used the term mono-block simply calling it a "One Piece" steel breech piece. I am not positive but I think perhaps that Beretta coined the term Mono-Block.
I would definately agree with Larry, the use of Diana by Beretta would have no connection with this gun.

Well, that's why I'm here to figure out what kind of barrel is it and what is the real value.
Maybe having the name Diana on both barrels is simply a coincidence, but also both of them looks pretty the same. There is many proofmarks, but I can easily send some pictures for easyer recognition, but I just don't know how to post it?
So if you can suggest something where to post the pictures, I'll gladly do it.

Some of the proofmarks are:
"ORIGINAL DIANA" sign in gold on the top of the barrel with picture goddest Diana with elbow and arrow in hands, "DEMI BLOC", "POUR POURDRES VIVES", "ACIER BAYARD", "ANC. ETABL PIEPER", "HER STAL BELGIQUE", "PV", "ELG" (in triangle order), "16.8 CHOKE 16.7" - on right barrel, "CHOKE 16.6" - on left barrel, and also some numbers: 62675, 8534, 4856.
Thanks for help.

Emilio,

Welcome to the bbs.

Miller is of course correct. The gun was made by Henri Pieper.

Here is a similar gun.



Here is the Pieper patent application:
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT246195&id=QiBMAAAAEBAJ&dq=henri+pieper

An english language Pieper Catalog:


A german language Pieper Catalog:


The only reason the Beretta looks similar is method of joining the barrels. Which Pieper changed only in appearance:


So to answer your question. No you did not find the Original Beretta Diana shotgun. Beretta's current offering is merely drawing on a long history of fine European gun making.

By the way, it really is easier if you post images of guns you have questions about. Here is the FAQ:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6339&page=1#Post6339

Pete

Pete; Very interesting post. The first pic is constructed according to Pieper's patent. The one piece block is bored on a taper with the holes larger at the rear & the tube inserted from the breech end. the tubes themselves are not stepped which is why the block is larger than the bbls. I have a Pieper similar to the lower pic marked Modified Diana also but had doll's head rather than cross bolt. On these guns as best as i have been able to determine the bbl is stepped down, the shank threaded & then screwed into the front of the block. The tubes extend only about half way through the block so the chambers are partially in the block & partially in the tubes. I am still somewhat confused on the Pieper "Demi-Block". Normally we think of this as a chopper lump construction. The pic of the model 459 thouigh is marked Demi-Block but also shows the tube joining line. Is this a "Tubed Two Piece Block" rather than using the one piece mono-block???

The method of barrel jointing in Pete's photos reminds me of French "fretted" barrels, with the step, like you often see on Manufrance Robusts.

Emilio,

Welcome back. You have become an expert at posting pictures.

Nice pictures of the Pieper Diana Model 459. The date code "d" indicates it passed proof in 1925. The 1Kg467 is the weight of the barrels at the time they passed proof. So, if you weigh them you will be able to tell if they have been modified in any way.


Pete

I'm back after a year and half ;O)
Yeah, a real expert in posting pictures indeed hehe

In a meantime, I weigh them, and they are the same weight like it says there, 1Kg467.

So, does anyone know about some starting or relative value at least, or the place where I can maybe inform myself about it?

Emilio