doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Two Different Worlds

Quote:
"I never said you are actually casting votes for dead Democrats"

This sentance only has to be changed slightly to make it accurate. Dead Democrats cast votes all the time in the Kenyan's great Peoples Republik of Illinois. His Honor the original Mayor Richie Daley managed to swing the 1960 election and the presidency over to Kennedy by using this technique.
The primary voting rule in Chicago has always been to vote early and vote often.
There are States in deeper financial trouble than Illinois but I don't know of one that's more corrupt George Ryan ,a former Governor, is in jail and has been joined by the last Governor. I wouldn't be suprised to see the current Governor join them as well.

Keep in mind that these liberal scum have anything but our best interests at heart: Here's what the last now jailed Governor tried to do in Illinois:


Gun control

During his February 2006 "State of the State" address, Blagojevich said the state should ban semi-automatic firearms, prompting threats from several gunmakers in the state that they will take their business elsewhere. Among these were ArmaLite Inc., Rock River Arms, Les Baer Custom and the Springfield Armory.[108]

As a state legislator, Blagojevich tried to raise the price of an Illinois Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) card from $5 to $500,[109] saying that such a large increase was necessary so people would think twice about wanting to own a gun. Blagojevich vetoed three gun bills in 2005, which would have:
1.Deleted records in gun database after 90 days�gun proponents argued that this was a privacy concern for law-abiding citizens[94]
2.Eliminated the waiting period for someone wanting to buy a rifle or shotgun, when trading in a previously owned weapon
3.Overridden local laws regulating transport of firearms.[110]

Blagojevich's position in regard to guns was criticized by the Illinois State Rifle Association: "Rod should spend more time catching criminals and less time controlling guns." His support for making gun laws of Illinois more restrictive earned him the ire of gun owners' groups

Jim

I never said liberals don't own guns, even though they represent a lower percentage of gun owners in general. And neither keith nor Italiansxs said the data in your link was accurate. Again, you are trying to twist our words. We both felt it under-reported gun ownership, probably considerably. Thus, I would not feel confident that the numbers of liberal gun owners vs. conservative gun owners was accurate or significant. I did say that Obama has been 100% anti-gun in the past, and continues to be anti-gun. You have had ample opportunity to refute or disprove any of Obama's anti-gun actions that I referenced. We're still waiting. As in the past, you never confront or disprove the facts that show Obama is not our friend. You simply dance around them and attempt to change the subject.

Stupid, or dishonest? Name calling is only bad when it's not true. I never claimed to be Mister Rogers.

The fact that Obama did not pursue even more anti-gun initiatives in his first term shows that he or some of his advisors are astute enough to realize what happened to Bill Clinton in the mid-term elections after his attack on gun ownership. A second term Obama would not be so constrained, and we can't afford to give him a chance. The fact that gun rights are still alive and well has absolutely nothing to do with Obama, and everything to do with pro-gun voters, the pro-gun lobby, five conservative Supreme Court justices, and the NRA.

You can now either refute or obfuscate. Having been down this road with you on several occasions, I have a pretty good idea what's coming.

Ok Gnomen:
Here's your big opportunity:
Start posting facts that demonstrate that Obama is NO threat to our 2nd Amendment rights. We've posted multiple reasons why we believe he is in fact a very dangerous threat so go ahead and refute what we're posted. Claiming to not understand what Keith and I and others have posted on this thread isn't an acceptable option. Post ONE pro gun piece of legislation he has supported. Post one verifiable statement he has made that supports our RIGHT to own firearms.
Go ahead we're all waiting. And NO you do not get to "operate under the radar" like the White House occupant currently does.
Jim

What's coming is an apology - you are right that neither you nor Italian said the data were accurate. Italian simply said that NORC is a "credible organization" and you concurred with him that the numbers were probably lower than they actually are. Neither of you said that the numbers were accurate.

"Thus, I would not feel confident that the numbers of liberal gun owners vs. conservative gun owners was accurate or significant." OK, so you aren't confident that the numbers of liberal gun owners vs conservative ones are significant. That's your opinion. You might be right. Personally I think there are a "significant" number of liberal gun owners and I don't see what the problem is.

Italian, you have indeed posted many reasons why you believe Obama is a threat to your ownership of guns. You have articulated them clearly and I understand what you (and millions of others) believe when it comes to guns. I hold a different view - my beliefs are different and I have articulated them also.

And I get to operate any way I wish - you do not determine that. Just as you can express beliefs I disagree with, I can do the same. And for the reasons I posted, I do not think Obama will interfere with our guns. He's too clever a politician to do that.

Both you and Keith think the reported gun owner numbers are too low - (I hope I'm not misquoting you again ;)) so that means that even more people are gun owners and that makes it even more difficult politically to interfere. It might even mean that more liberals than you imagine own guns!

Here you go Gnomon. Obama's public position on gun control. You might as well argue that the moon is made of blue cheese. You won't attempt to refute any of this because you can't refute it.


Barack Obama on Gun Control
Junior Senator (IL); President-Elect




Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions
Hale DeMar, a 52-year-old Wilmette resident, was arrested and charged with misdemeanor violations for shooting, in the shoulder and leg, a burglar who broke into his home not once, but twice. Cook County prosecutors dropped all charges against DeMar.
In March 2004, the Illinois Senate passed Senate Bill 2165, a law introduced in response to DeMar's case, with provisions designed to assert a right of citizens to protect themselves against home invasions, such that self-defense requirements would be viewed to take precedence over local ordinances against handgun possession. The measure passed the Illinois Senate by a vote of 38-20. Barack Obama was one of the 20 state senators voting against the measure.

Governor Rod Blagojevich vetoed the bill. On Nov. 9, 2004, the Illinois Senate voted 40-18 to override Blagojevich's veto. Again, Obama acted against the bill.

On Nov. 17, the Illinois House voted overwhelmingly, 85-30, to override the governor's veto and Senate Bill 2165 became law.

Source: Obama Nation, by Jerome Corsi, p.241-242 Aug 1, 2008

Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws
Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual�s right to bear arms?
A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can�t constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don�t have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, �No, my writing wasn�t on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.�
Actually, Obama�s writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama�s campaign said, �Sen. Obama didn�t fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn�t reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn�t reflect his views.�

Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist
April 11th produced "Bittergate." The Huffington Post website posted an explanation Obama gave at a private fundraiser in San Francisco of the challenges he faced with working-class voters in Pennsylvania and Indiana. "It's not surprising they get bitter," he said, referring to decades of constrained economic opportunities. "They cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Clinton said the remarks were "not reflective of the values and beliefs of Americans." McCain said Obama showed "breathtaking" elitism. Obama challenged the accusations, and noted in response to the charge of elitism that he had been raised by a single mother who relied on food stamps, but conceded he could have been more diplomatic.

Source: Obama for Beginners, by Bob Neer, p. 61 Apr 1, 2008

Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok
Q: You said recently, �I have no intention of taking away folks� guns.� But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you�ve said that it�s constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it�s important for us to recognize that we�ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people�s traditions.

Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008

Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing
Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
A: I don�t think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You�ve got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you�ve got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers
Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, �I didn�t find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms.�

It wasn�t until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities
Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?
A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we�ve had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We�ve got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We�ve got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren�t loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they�re not made in our communities. There aren�t any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who�ve been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That�s a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don�t have it right now.

Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality
I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer�s lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there�s a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006

Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban
KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that�s good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.
OBAMA: Let�s be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.

Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions
Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

Click here for definitions & background information on Gun Control.
Click here for a profile of Barack Obama.
Click here for SenateMatch answers by Barack Obama.
Agree? Disagree? Voice your opinions on Gun Control in The Forum.
Click here for a summary of Barack Obama's positions on all issues.
Click here for issue positions of other IL politicians.

Other candidates on Gun Control: Barack Obama on other issues:
IL Gubernatorial:
Pat Quinn
IL Senatorial:
Richard Durbin
Roland Burris

Newly elected in 2008 & seated in 2009:
AK:Begich (D)
CO:Udall (D)
ID:Risch (R)
MN:Franken (D)
NC:Hagan (D)
NE:Johanns (R)
NH:Shaheen (D)
NM:Udall (D)
OR:Merkley (D)
VA:Warner (D)

Newly appointed in 2009;
special election in 2010:
DE:Kaufman (D)
CO:Bennet (D)
IL:Burris (D)
NY:Gillibrand (D)

Announced retirement as of 2010:
DE:Kaufman (D)
FL:Martinez (R)
KS:Brownback (R)
MO:Bond (R)
OH:Voinovich (R)

Up for 6-year term in 2010:
(13 Democrats; 15 Republicans)
AK:Murkowski (R)
AL:Shelby (R)
AR:Lincoln (D)
AZ:McCain (R)
CA:Boxer (D)
CT:Dodd (D)
GA:Isakson (R)
HI:Inouye (D)
IA:Grassley (R)
ID:Crapo (R)
IN:Bayh (D)
KY:Bunning (R)
LA:Vitter (R)
MD:Mikulski (D)
NC:Burr (R)
ND:Dorgan (D)
NH:Gregg (R)
NV:Reid (D)
NY:Schumer (D)
OK:Coburn (R)
OR:Wyden (D)
PA:Specter (R)
SC:DeMint (R)
SD:Thune (R)
UT:Bennett (R)
VT:Leahy (D)
WA:Murray (D)
WI:Feingold (D) Abortion
Budget/Economy
Civil Rights
Corporations
Crime
Drugs
Education
Energy/Oil
Environment
Families

Here you go Gnomon. Obama's public position on gun control. You might as well argue that the moon is made of blue cheese. You won't attempt to refute any of this because you can't refute it.


Barack Obama on Gun Control
Junior Senator (IL); President-Elect




Opposed bill okaying illegal gun use in home invasions
Hale DeMar, a 52-year-old Wilmette resident, was arrested and charged with misdemeanor violations for shooting, in the shoulder and leg, a burglar who broke into his home not once, but twice. Cook County prosecutors dropped all charges against DeMar.
In March 2004, the Illinois Senate passed Senate Bill 2165, a law introduced in response to DeMar's case, with provisions designed to assert a right of citizens to protect themselves against home invasions, such that self-defense requirements would be viewed to take precedence over local ordinances against handgun possession. The measure passed the Illinois Senate by a vote of 38-20. Barack Obama was one of the 20 state senators voting against the measure.

Governor Rod Blagojevich vetoed the bill. On Nov. 9, 2004, the Illinois Senate voted 40-18 to override Blagojevich's veto. Again, Obama acted against the bill.

On Nov. 17, the Illinois House voted overwhelmingly, 85-30, to override the governor's veto and Senate Bill 2165 became law.

Source: Obama Nation, by Jerome Corsi, p.241-242 Aug 1, 2008

Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws
Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual�s right to bear arms?
A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can�t constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don�t have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.

Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary Apr 16, 2008

FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban
Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, �No, my writing wasn�t on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns.�
Actually, Obama�s writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:

35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.

Obama�s campaign said, �Sen. Obama didn�t fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn�t reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn�t reflect his views.�

Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008

April 2008: "Bittergate" labeled Obama elitist
April 11th produced "Bittergate." The Huffington Post website posted an explanation Obama gave at a private fundraiser in San Francisco of the challenges he faced with working-class voters in Pennsylvania and Indiana. "It's not surprising they get bitter," he said, referring to decades of constrained economic opportunities. "They cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Clinton said the remarks were "not reflective of the values and beliefs of Americans." McCain said Obama showed "breathtaking" elitism. Obama challenged the accusations, and noted in response to the charge of elitism that he had been raised by a single mother who relied on food stamps, but conceded he could have been more diplomatic.

Source: Obama for Beginners, by Bob Neer, p. 61 Apr 1, 2008

Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok
Q: You said recently, �I have no intention of taking away folks� guns.� But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you�ve said that it�s constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?
A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it�s important for us to recognize that we�ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people�s traditions.

Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008

Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing
Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?
A: I don�t think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You�ve got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you�ve got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.

Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008

2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month
Obama sought moderate gun control measures, such as a 2000 bill he cosponsored to limit handgun purchases to one per month (it did not pass). He voted against letting people violate local weapons bans in cases of self-defense, but also voted in2004 to let retired police officers carry concealed handguns.
Source: The Improbable Quest, by John K. Wilson, p.148 Oct 30, 2007

Concealed carry OK for retired police officers
Obama voted for a bill in the Illinois senate that allowed retired law enforcement officers to carry concealed weapons. If there was any issue on which Obama rarely deviated, it was gun control. He was the most strident candidate when it came to enforcin and expanding gun control laws. So this vote jumped out as inconsistent.
When I queried him about the vote, he said, �I didn�t find that [vote] surprising. I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. This was a narrow exception in an exceptional circumstance where a retired police officer might find himself vulnerable as a consequence of the work he has previously done--and had been trained extensively in the proper use of firearms.�

It wasn�t until a few weeks later that another theory came forward about the uncharacteristic vote. Obama was battling with his GOP opponent to win the endorsement of the Fraternal Order of Police.

Source: From Promise to Power, by David Mendell, p.250-251 Aug 14, 2007

Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities
Q: How would you address gun violence that continues to be the #1 cause of death among African-American men?
A: You know, when the massacre happened at Virginia Tech, I think all of us were grief stricken and shocked by the carnage. But in this year alone, in Chicago, we�ve had 34 Chicago public school students gunned down and killed. And for the most part, there has been silence. We know what to do. We�ve got to enforce the gun laws that are on the books. We�ve got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren�t loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they�re not made in our communities. There aren�t any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit. But what we also have to do is to make sure that we change our politics so that we care just as much about those 30-some children in Chicago who�ve been shot as we do the children in Virginia Tech. That�s a mindset that we have to have in the White House and we don�t have it right now.

Source: 2007 NAACP Presidential Primary Forum Jul 12, 2007

Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality
I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer�s lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do ew need to punish thatman for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there�s a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.
Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006

Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban
KEYES: [to Obama]: I am a strong believer in the second amendment. The gun control mentality is ruthlessly absurd. It suggests that we should pass a law that prevents law abiding citizens from carrying weapons. You end up with a situation where the crook have all the guns and the law abiding citizens cannot defend themselves. I guess that�s good enough for Senator Obama who voted against the bill that would have allowed homeowners to defend themselves if their homes were broken into.
OBAMA: Let�s be honest. Mr. Keyes does not believe in common gun control measures like the assault weapons bill. Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits from what I can tell with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.

Source: Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes Oct 21, 2004

Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions
Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.
Source: 1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998

Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.
A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:
Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime
Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect
Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought
Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations
Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices
Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

Click here for definitions & background information on Gun Control.
Click here for a profile of Barack Obama.
Click here for SenateMatch answers by Barack Obama.
Agree? Disagree? Voice your opinions on Gun Control in The Forum.
Click here for a summary of Barack Obama's positions on all issues.
Click here for issue positions of other IL politicians.

Other candidates on Gun Control: Barack Obama on other issues:
IL Gubernatorial:
Pat Quinn
IL Senatorial:
Richard Durbin
Roland Burris

Newly elected in 2008 & seated in 2009:
AK:Begich (D)
CO:Udall (D)
ID:Risch (R)
MN:Franken (D)
NC:Hagan (D)
NE:Johanns (R)
NH:Shaheen (D)
NM:Udall (D)
OR:Merkley (D)
VA:Warner (D)

Newly appointed in 2009;
special election in 2010:
DE:Kaufman (D)
CO:Bennet (D)
IL:Burris (D)
NY:Gillibrand (D)

Announced retirement as of 2010:
DE:Kaufman (D)
FL:Martinez (R)
KS:Brownback (R)
MO:Bond (R)
OH:Voinovich (R)

Up for 6-year term in 2010:
(13 Democrats; 15 Republicans)
AK:Murkowski (R)
AL:Shelby (R)
AR:Lincoln (D)
AZ:McCain (R)
CA:Boxer (D)
CT:Dodd (D)
GA:Isakson (R)
HI:Inouye (D)
IA:Grassley (R)
ID:Crapo (R)
IN:Bayh (D)
KY:Bunning (R)
LA:Vitter (R)
MD:Mikulski (D)
NC:Burr (R)
ND:Dorgan (D)
NH:Gregg (R)
NV:Reid (D)
NY:Schumer (D)
OK:Coburn (R)
OR:Wyden (D)
PA:Specter (R)
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I won't speak for Jim, but from me... apology not accepted. You've pulled this crap too many times to think it might be a mistake.

As for the requested refutations of Obama's anti-gun actions, iniatives, and record... Ta-Da... none have been provided. No surprises there. You didn't give us anything simply because you've got nothing. I was hoping you'd at least find some way to blame Bush and Cheney. Geez, throw us a bone!

By the way, Obama already has interfered with our gun rights, in all of the ways I've cited, and more. Aren't you one of the geniuses I've challenged here to go to Obama's adopted hometown of Chicago and buy a handgun, and then carry it concealed... legally? If not, consider the gauntlet thrown down. Let us know how that works out. Obama has merely been smart enough to not go overboard in his first term. Clever politician indeed.

You do indeed get to operate any way you wish. Just remember, I'll be there to expose you and your tactics. If I stop, maybe someone here can put my name in "Silent Doubles" because it probably means I'm dead.

Appology?? The same basic premise goes for me as well. You have nothing to refute the facts that we have posted so you're just dancing around. Keith and I have one goal here and that's to expose extreme liberals like Obama as exactly what they are Those who wish to eliminate our constitional rights. I truly fear for this Country should he manage to fool as many people the 2nd time and actually get re-elected.
I expect to see the most negative campaign from the Democrats ever. Obama can't run on his record as he hasn't accomplished one credible thing. A viscous attack on conservatives and Romney will probably be his approach.
Hopefully at least 51% of the voters are sensible enough to ensure his re-election doesn't happen.
Jim

Keith, whether or not you accept my apology is totally irrelevant.

Joe McCarthy was there to expose people as well. What's your point? That there are no liberal gun owners or that your opinion is the only valid one because you say so?

"I'll be there to expose you and your tactics."

Woo-woo, fnar! fnar!

Jim, I have no doubt that you fear for this country.

I do too.