doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com WW Greener Grade FH25 Info req?

Hey all
New to the forum so hello everyone.
Got this from my dad who said keep it or sell it and pay for our moose hunt in the fall. so just on a fact finding to start!
So I know it's a W W Greener Grade FH25. It is in great shape, The bluing on the barrels is 95% with a few blemishes. The case color on the action is still very good. Widows Peak forend.

30" barrels 12 Gauge 2 3/4. Both bores are excellent. Action is tight and the ejectors work just fine.

So, there is very little on WW Greener. Do you think they would be receptive to a letter, to find out its history etc....
so any info on history and value would help!
Here are the pics. Thanks in advance for any info.
Ser #58075
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00957.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00956.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00955.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00954.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00953.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00952.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00951.jpg
http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00958.jpg

Your gun was made in 1910.

Being an FH25 it would have been built as a lower level of the medium grade guns.

From the pics the gun looks very nice, original and in good shape. Nice gun.

Hello scjordan, welcome on your first post !!

I did the first three by putting [img] in the front of the string and [/img] in the rear of the string. Each picture requites this treatment
Mike





To show how it should look, I have left the / out of the last [/img]
[img]http://i594.photobucket.com/albums/tt23/scjordan2322/DSC00955.jpg[img]

FH25 was NOT built as the low level of medium grade guns....it was the higher level of the "medium" grade, 25 guineas was not a small amount of money in the late 1890's early 1900's. A Greener built on the FP action with ejectors is a fine gun indeed.

Your Greener is VERY nice.

Dustin

scjordan, the information I provided you in my original post was taken from Graham Greener's book, "The Greener Story."

Page 199 contains the serial numbers that gives the date of your gun being manufactured in 1910. Thru the years Greener used various grading systems. Found on page 195 is the 4th system for guns manufactured from 1902 to 1965. The highest of these grades goes all the way to 150, these are presentation guns and are truly beautiful.

Best guns are graded from 150 down to a G60.

Medium grade guns are listed for an FH70 all the way down to an F20. FH25's are listed as you can imagine, just above the F20.
Inexpensive models start at the A16 or F16.

For further information you can try contacting Graham Greener thru his website:
www.wwgreener.com

Graham is a great guy and I am sure that once he can get to it he wwould try to answer any questions you might have.

Greener's is still making guns but only "Best" guns and just a handful each year.

LeFusil, I am curious as to where you are getting the information you are posting. Please share if you would.

Books. Experience. Knowledge of quality guns. All Facile Princeps guns are mid to high quality to start with. the low level FP guns would be FP guns built with extractors and very minimal engraving...these were still expensive guns when comparing them to the run of the mill plain box lock from Birmingham gun makers. A FH 25 has engraving, ejectors, stocks made from quality blanks, etc. It would not be considered the low end of the FP series. Like I said earlier....25 Guineas in 1910 was not a small amount of money, look through some Birmingham makers catalogs from that time frame and see what kind of guns 25 guineas could get you.

Anyway....very nice gun, I owned one just like it, from the same mfg. year, if you have a chance to see what the insides of the gun look like, you will be very impressed. The guns guts are polished to mirrors, the internal finish is way above average. Greener made fantastic guns.

Dustin

Thanks so much for all the info so far! There is a bit of banter over the grade so I would imagine. Greater difference in it's value?
What say u on value, Canadian dollars!!
Jordy

I wouldn't let your gun go for any less than $2500 U.S. dollars, that'd be the low end, I think in the right market..with the right buyer, I think you'd be able to get low 3k's for it. Might be the pics...but the barrels look to be in need of re-blacking. If you are going to use the gun....I suggest sending it to Nick Mackinson for a strip, clean & lube and barrel blacking, etc. The pins on your FH25 look to be in fantastic shape, a very good sign.

Dustin

LeFusil, what "books" are you getting your grade information from ? It appears to me that 1cdog is correct according to Graham Greener's book on page 158. Is Greener's book incorrect ?

Graham Greener states for the period of 1910 for FH series guns--

Medium Grades in "upper" group are FH 45

Medium Grades in "medium" group are FH 35

Medium Grades in "lower" group FH 25

In 1919, Greener also listed the FH 35 being put into the "lower" group as prices increased.

Just the pic then cause the barrel bluing is near 90% just a few small blemishes.
Canadians are saying in the 1500 range!

Disregard everything I've said, the book is always right. :-) If Graham Greener says its the low of the mids, then so be it. When comparing the Greener FH25 to what in the trade is called the low end of the mid grades, the FH25 is usually head and shoulders above the trade average. Don't really need a book to tell you that. Comparing lower-end mid level guns from makers such as Midland, Bonehill, Webley, etc..The FH25 has them beat in external fit and finish & decoration, and way above in internal fit and finish.
I was not refering to the Greener grading scale when I made my comments, I was refering to 1cdogs statement of the FH25 being in the lower level of medium grade guns....maybe I took his statement out of context, or maybe he should've specified that he was refering to the Greener grading scale.

Dustin

Yep--$1500.00 to $1800.00 if you really want to sell it in a reasonable length of time in Canada. If not, then put it at $2500.00 to $3000.00 and see how long you have it. If you get it, great. You also must remember that generally it is harder getting top dollar in Canada for old SxS's as compared to some other countries.

I see scjordan's gun as in unusually fine condition compared to the normal that we see. As LeFusil says, the exterior fit and finish are quite good. I would tend to agree with LeFusil and gunaholic on the selling price in the U.S. I would love to find one for Canadian prices.

He might have to post pone his Moose hunt for a year or so at $2500

Show me another British BLE gun that comes close to the quality of this FH25 for less than $2500 jOey. I double dog dare ya. ;-)

Here's one---Model 681E with original finish in quite nice condition and ejectors. $469.00 in Canada.

Nice gun and nice try. While your gun/example is very nicely embellished, it's not quite in the same league as the FH25. Look at the difference in the frame sculpting between your example and the FH25. The FH25 has hand filed frame bolsters, a elegantly sculpted top lever, a proprietary version of intercepting sears, horn insert in the forend, removeable hinge pin, etc.
FH25, circa 1910, notice the sculpting of the frame, pay special attention to the quality of the filing of the bolsters.




Your example does not have intercepting sears, I do not believe it has a removeable hing pin, almost zero sculpting/filing to the frame, fences, etc. These are just some of the differences between the two types of guns. I hope this helps to explain the difference between the two types of guns.

I wish I took pictures of the internal works before I sold my FH25....there was alot of TLC given to the guts of that gun. Everything smooth and polished to mirrors. Absolutely fantastic.

By the way...if the pictured Clabrough was bought for $469 Can.......that is a freeeking steal :-)|

Dustin

Lefusil,
You are confuzzing me. The Canadian Greener obviousley has FH 25 on the trigger bow. Are you saying that it is NOT a FH 25?

No one is arguing that Greener didn't make good guns.

To begin with the thread had to clarify that it was a lower mid grade GREENER, not a lower mid grade Birmingham boxlock.

Secondly, I think gunsaholic's point wasn't that his gun was as good/better than the Greener FH25, but was pointing out the price it sold for inside of the last 6 months, relative to his suggestion the gun might reasonably fetch something in the $1500 range, while LeFusil was telling the OP to expect a minimum of $2500 and perhaps north of $3000.

Gunsaholic and I, and probably a few other Canadians following this thread, follow the CANADIAN market fairly closely, as well as the US market. We know they are different. I don't think either gunsaholic or I have any interest in this gun except answering his question on a Canadian gun forum of how much should he expect to get when he sells it. Telling him to hang on for $2500 plus is likely going to mean a long wait when he has already posted that he has a purpose for the money.

I hear lots of grips about people listing on Gun Broker and setting unrealistic minimums and thus the guns never sell. Lefusil, I believe you are advising the OP to do the same here.

BTW, both Guns and I know the Clabrough was a steal. When he got it, I guessed between $900 and $1200.

We were talking last week about prices on Foxes. I have a not bad 1909 A grade, 30" barrels etc that frankly I think would sit around for a while if I asked anything over $1000. I bought it 4 years ago for $500.

Thanks so much for all the help guys!!!

Dustin, is that the Greener you had at Flatwater last year?

Hi Jordan,
I just sent you a private message regarding your FH 25. Drop me a note and I would be more than happy to give you some info on your gun. Cheers!