doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Two Different Worlds

The current occupant of the White House has shown utter disdain for Congress and he'll use "Executive Order" to implement whatever he wants when he no longer has to face re-election.
The major point that restrained him in 2008 was the 60 + members of Congress who are Democrats wrote a letter stating they would NOT support any attempt to return to the "Assault weapons ban" of the Clinton era.
Oh and Rabbit. Go back and look at the 2008 Democrat platform where the institution of just such an assault ban is part of it. It's right there in black and white I've posted it before and I'm not going to the trouble of posting it again! His stated goal of instituting another ban along with other gun restrictive legislation was on the fool's web site for several days after the election until someone in his administration took it down.
Inaccuracy ?? B.S. you liberals are the spin guys here and everything you state is in this category. The reason we aren't arguing with anyone is everyone else except you liberals know what we're stating is factual.
On the other hand you have NO facts to refute what we've posted to back up your inane position.
Jim

jack, we did in fact get all of those anti-gun iniatives referenced in this thread. We did in fact get two very anti-gun Supreme Court justices whom we will have to deal with long after Obama leaves office. You call that screaming fire in an empty theatre? Really?

It appears that some of the predictions made about Obama in 2008 were quite accurate. Why don't you help Gnomoron a bit and tell us how having Obama for four more years will be good for gun rights.

Obama is just the latest and greatest in a long line of anti-gun politicians. The pendulum swings both ways as we lose ground and then regain it. Apparently, you would have us ignore the threat. Thanks for all your help.

As you say... what a joke.

Love your rainbow bumper sticker.

In light of the following quote from Justice Kagan (one of Obama's first-term Supreme Court nominees) earlier this month (to an audience in Wisconsin), please explain how the last paragraph of your post (I've bolded it above, for your convenience) bears anything other than a passing resemblence to describing reality:



http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/v...-146048325.html

It's been known since shortly after she joined the Court that Kagan was invited to learn about shotgunning - skeet, in particular - by Scalia, she accepted his invitation, and came to like it. And she's been shooting skeet (and, more recently, pheasants) with Scalia since.

Frankly, gun owners, hunters and shooters would benefit far more from extending a friendly hand to non-owners, non-shooters and non-hunters to invite them to see what guns, shooting and maybe even hunting are all about. It works a hell of a lot better than engaging in fulminating arguments over whether this politician is more or less liberal or conservative or whatever.

Or, as my old man used to say, you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. In this case, Scalia took Stevens' replacement and turned her into a pro-gun person.

Pols say and do whatever it takes to get elected. They'll come out for man-on-yak sex, if it means enough fanciers of man-on-yak sex to elect them, will show up to vote for them. It's a waste of time to argue about them. Spend your time on positively influencing otherwise-undecided people in favor of guns, shooting and hunting. It's far more productive.

Looks like Maine Dave has the solution. Just have Scalia take the bad appointees to the skeet field and convert em. Close reading there on Justice Kagan, Dave, and gosh gee, it does sort of back up what Gnomon said about lifetime appointees not always dancin with who brung em.

jack

I always try to keep an open mind but I expect the next thing Kagan will be doing is crawling on her belly with Kerry while deer hunting.

Most Republicans portrayed Kagan as a partisan who will use her post to push the Democratic agenda from the bench.

Kagan "is truly a person of the political left � now they call themselves progressives � one who has a history of working to advance the values of the left wing of the Democratic Party, and whose philosophy of judging allows a judge to utilize the power of their office to advance their vision for what America should be," said Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama, the top Republican on the Judiciary Committee

From a time prior to her nomination:

Kagan, whom President Barack Obama nominated to the high court this week, made the comment to Justice Thurgood Marshall, urging him in a one-paragraph memo to vote against hearing the District of Columbia man�s appeal. The man�s �sole contention is that the District of Columbia�s firearms statutes violate his constitutional right to �keep and bear arms,�� Kagan wrote. �I�m not sympathetic.�

Dave, you almost got me. But recalling the election year theatrics of Kerry, as Jim astutely did also, I decided to search for more evidence of Kagan's conversion. I spent the last half hour Googling things like "Kagan gun rights", "Kagan Second Amendment", Kagan antelope", Kagan shooting", etc. Alas, I only found several references to the same speech you quoted, and scores of results that cite Elena Kagan's long anti-gun fervor.

Like Jim, my knee jerk reaction is to think that this is probably an election year ruse. I will concede that there are cases of athiests finding God, and anti-gunners converting to NRA members. But most times, the leopard does not change his spots. I truly hope this is one of those miraculous conversions, but until I see Ms. Kagan rule in favor of gun owners in Second Amendment cases, I will remain skeptical. And, as the saying goes, the Second Amendment ain't about duck (or antelope) hunting.

It would be cool to see Elena Kagan as keynote speaker at an NRA Convention, clutching a rifle and a picture of Charleton Heston, screaming, "...from my cold dead hands." Then there would be a fly-over by an elite squadron of pigs with wings... Damn, there goes the alarm clock, must hit snooze button.

I still have the large Youngstown Vindicator front page color photo and article depicting John Kerry in camo, carrying two dead geese that he alledgedly shot from a Poland, Ohio farm. No reporters were allowed to accompany him on the "hunt". I still consider this to be a Democrat I.Q. Test. Most score pretty low.

And John Kerry continued to be a reliable anti-Second Amendment force. He says he won't seek re-election in 2014. But there will be another anti-gunner to take his place. I say we should be ready to oppose him. jack thinks I am yelling fire in an empty (or full?) theatre. You say we can catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I say don't pet a rattlesnake and act surprised when he bites you.

Nice try though. Good night.

I just wish our most ardent defenders against threats to our gun freedoms would give up the name calling. Calling others of our gun fraternity stupid or dishonest for merely voicing a different perspective is useless invective, just poisonous opinion that's not in the universe of what's true or false. And twisting another's name into something pejorative seems to me simply puerile. I don't think you guys are winning over any fence-sitters.

Just my opinion. Now, what can my name be twisted into as an expression of disdain? Have at it, righteous defenders of freedom.

Jay Gramith

Jay, since I am the guy who has called one supposedly in our gun fraternity "stupid or dishonest", I'll assume this was directed at me. Since it is little 'ol peurile me who has twisted another's name into a pejorative, I decided to respond. I thought I did an adequate job of explaining why I referred to Gnomon as stupid or dishonest. This is not the first time, and it never starts out that way. But after several rounds of him repeating the same tired mistruths, intentionally twisting my words, and dancing around or evading the issue at hand, I often resort to calling the spade a shovel.

I know you, and several others, would rather see me ignore his tactics or even say I respect his opinion just because he is, or claims to be, a gun owner. If I did that, I would have to be dishonest and insincere. You may recall that syndicated columnist Carl Rowan was also a gun owner. He used his typewriter for years as a weapon to weaken or destroy the Second Amendment. I have more disdain for Carl Rowan than for Gnomon because he concealed his gun ownership, but both are gun owners who use the written word to help slip the nose of gun control under the big tent. Apparently, you would have us welcome them and engage them and gently try to convert them. Good luck with that. You probably think that talking with Iran will dissuade them from pursuing nuclear weapons too.

But I couldn't help noticing that you are very selective when defending members of our "fraternity" when it comes to name calling or insults. I have been on the receiving end numerous times, but I'm OK with that and can defend myself just fine, thank you. I note that in threads of this ilk, Jim and DaveK are often targets of ridicule, insults, and name calling as well. Thankfully, they too are more than capable of self-defense, because Gunflint Charlie is never there coming to the rescue.

I probably shouldn't read too much into that. But this puerile, invective hurling, ardent and righteous defender of threats to our gun freedoms is ferverently hoping that the "fence sitters" are incapable of recognizing hypocrisy.

I was just going to let this go but I think I do have to say something:
I think the extent of my "name calling" in this thread has been referring to Obama as a "fool" for putting his 2nd Amendment derailment plan on his website right after the election. It was taken down in a matter of days.

Jay:
I wonder what became of your outrage when I and others were called every name in the book in past threads by some of these same people who I have had on my ignore list for quite some time?
Preservation of our 2nd Amendment rights should be an essential point for ALL members on this forum and IMO everybody should identify and plan on removing anyone who is a threat to these rights. Obama is a definite threat and no gun owner should support his re-election.
Jim

Chopper, I am with you--a significantly different world from our day---and two different boards as well!