doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com European Beretta-help needed

Tw,
You sound like you are very sure this is a model 408, can you tell me how you know that? I am very interested in finding out why this one is so different than any other Berettas I have seen in the past. Thanks alot for any info you can provide me with, I appreciate it!
Also, you don't need to worry about me shooting heavy loads in this one, I have always liked lightweight guns and respect them for what they are. This is not nearly the lightest double I have owned, I once had an 12 gauge Ithaca Flues model in 1 1/2 grade that had lightweight damascus barrels on it. It weighed just over 5 1/2 pounds. I used to shoot it with 2 1/2 inch handloads but finally sold it because of all the horror stories about damascus barrels blowing up. I wish I had it back. Bob

Unless you have a problem opening the gun after firing, I would not try to peen the holes. This is just not a problem and should not present a problem in the future if you shoot sensible shells. This is a very unusual gun, may be a prototype or low production gun. I have no idea why Beretta didn't incorporate the pin type third fastener in their side by sides instead of the Greener crossbolt. It would have saved them a fortune in production cost.

I am no expert on Berretta SxS but from my experience looking at Berrettas in Norwegian gun shops they come in far more configurations than we see over here. As to why it does not match any configurations we are used to seeing, IMO it is probably a gun brought back by someone years ago, and not a rare model necessarily.

408....409 mystery. I agree it doesn't look like any other 409, but remember that '09s were a decade+ into production when this gun was made, so that argues against it being a prototype.

RE: firing pin holes, I just had Rich Cole do some minor work on a 1939 Beretta 410, he said he filed down the firing pins to better match current production primers. But I don't know what spec he's following.

I think you buy "a lot of a shotgun" for $500 dollars, either if it is a 408 or 409 model.
I wish I could find such a bargain this side of the border.
Chokes are more like imp mod (0.027") and full (0.039")and 1,350 is the barrels weight in GRAMS (not Kg) Europeans use the comma (,) for decimal point (.)
I am also pretty sure that the firing pins are integral (same piece) with the hammers in this shotgun.
The "untouched" screws talks fine about what is inside (a clean mechanism!).

Enjoy!

Best,

OK, let me confuse things even more. I have a 1956 Italian catalog from Beretta. They show several variations for the 409. There is the 409, 409 L, 409 PB and the 409 BIS. The picture of the 409 BIS has that same rib. It specifically states that the right trigger is articulated. It also talks about a triple lock up. But they had that on many of their guns.

I can not find the 408 in any of my catalogs or references, though I have no doubt that the model existed. The problem with Beretta is that they often marketed the same gun in different countries and changed the designation from country to country. I do see 408's show up on Italian auction sites. It also has that same rib. Go figure.

A 409 BIS
http://si.armiusate.it/catalogo/233/Fuci...2-2-2-STEL.html


A 408
http://www.armerialabeccaccia.it/dett_art.php?id=256



Pete

Bob,

The way I'm positive its a 408 is that you have told us it is so marked under the forearm. That is how Beretta marked their '4' series SxS guns; all, to the best of my knowledge. I've seen another 408 [years ago, now], like yours and so marked. I've also seen that model depicted in two dif Italian books on Beretta, one brought back by a friend in the 70's that is no longer available for me to ask if he still has it and the other my friend, Billy Hodge, who has a book given to him by one of the Beretta family that shows many variants of the guns they have made in the last century or so. I spoke w/Billy yesterday and he is going to see if he can find any refs to that model and call me back. I'm not positive that's the other book I saw it ref'd in, but I believe that it may have been. Billy didn't recall that particular variant, but said essentially the same thing that W. Burns & Pete have; Beretta made a LOT of configurations not exported here. Your 408 may have been called by another name when it was being marketed, but that is the model number.

The swamped rib and short stub extension is typical of French shotguns, but I don't know where the practice actually originated.

As an aside, on many of the older Garcia BL series Beretta's they carry their European model numbers stamped on the bbl's underside, i.e., S56E on a BL-4 or similar markings. The BL was an America only designation, as far as I know. Initially, they bore marketing names like 'Silver Snipe' & 'Golden Snipe', the only two box lock O/U models initially sold here before the 'BL' designations. Some of those 'BL's, like the BL-2S came and went rather quickly w/little fanfare, even though they are great L/W field guns w/their minimalist features & 'Speed Trigger'. The 408 may have suffered a similar short life in foreign markets removed from here.

And while on the subject, I can't speak to the 'GR' series guns carrying a European designation stamped in their forearms, I simply do not recall. Perhaps someone here has one they can take a quick look at and post their findings. I know it's not directly related, but still germane to Beretta's past BL double gun practices.

kind regards, tw

Here is what I have on the GR series.







The following are all GR2.









Pete

I know only one thing about this gun. If Beretta would market this gun with the pin style third fastener, swamped rib, in .410 and 28 gauge, with choice of 28" and 30" barrels, no engraving, choice of pistol grip or straight, they would have to stop production of their other guns go satisfy the orders for this gun.

Bill,

I agree! I also know that while all the literature I have seen only mentions 12ga, I have seen 10ga guns (408 / 409) show up on auctions.

Pete