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W. Foerster Berlin 12 bore with London reproof on 70mm chambers



8x57 DR

When information on those elusive gunmakers/firearms merchants/waffenh�ndler like Otto Bock, etc., is rediscovered, it would seem that the discovered info would point to the big book of info, but evidently it doesn't exist or hasn't been scanned yet?? Anyway, I made another stab at an attempt to unearth info on ole W. Foerster of Berlin(not to be confused with Max von F�rster( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_von_Foerster ) who was into powder, had a facility at Walsrode in 1878 and may have had a shop in Berlin) but the info is still very scarce. But I can state that if you see a hammerless sporting weapon with similar bolsters, fences(please correct me Roger), probability is about split for it being retailed by either W. Foerster or O. Geyger. But if it is pinned, it is more than likely that of W. Foerster, who seems to have sourced his gesteck from Liege and then had it completed and proofed in German. And it may be that many firearms merhants/waffenh�ndler did the same but the marks were worked off the components or hidden. W. Forester looks to have sourced the craftsmen at Liege early on and I would say it increased his profit margins. Post 1900, Jupille, Belgium was a close knit family of tube making craftsmen who had the exclusive right to produce Krupp steel tubes and had the potential to roll out up to 2k per day. The run of the mill Krupp tubes prior to WWI more than likely have their origins here.

Getting back to W. Foerster, he looks to have been in business about the time as H. Barella or W. Foerster's father was also a gunsmith. I've located adverts from the mid 1840s were a gunmaker named F�rster at Markgrafenstra�e 19 was peddling specialized bullets in Berlin and I assume this to be the same fella. W. Foerster was quite the marksman, as were most or many of the sporting weapons retailers and by the mid 1860s W. Foerster had some sporting weapons design of his own which he used in competition with others like Paul Mauser and possibly the Kaiser himself, or W. Foerster was able to achieve similar numbers. Maybe his design was something akin to the one below?


from http://rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/52/lid/180


For now I would assume his appointment as K�niglich Hofb�chsenmacher was post 1870(& pre-1883 - see previous page onCarl(1801-1883) von Preussen) and I hope the date range can be narrowed. W. Foerster hobnobbed with the elite furnishing them with his wares as well as shooting with them. This seems to be typical of suppliers to the Royal Courts and they spent more time competing and working on sales than gunmaking, but I don't think that to be an excuse for not making their wares. I can't say if he had any heirs or assigns but by WWI a businessman named Paul Schmidt was the owner and as typical he could have very well been W. Foerster's son-in-law had W. Foerster had any children. Info on the firm post WWI escapes me for now.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

here

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3880802

you see an interesting double rifle, signatures of W. F�rster on the action, and H. Barella on the barrels.

This is a funny piece, appears restored / reworked / actually "pimped".
And I wonder about those fake side plates and the safety switch to the left of the lever, with engraving in completely different style, a later addition?? And why would anyone in Europe engrave a whitetail deer ??

Regards,
fuhrmann

fuhrmann: thanks for following along and providing input. Lovely find and it piques Baumgarten's and my interest in the source of the Muzzelverschlu� as well as being chambered in 9.3X74R. Here it would seem that W. Foerster sourced H. Barella who in turn sourced one or all of the Merkel Boys. H. Barella and the Boys Merkel had strong sourcing ties. H. Barella acquired other concerns and might have had a stake in W. Foerster? It may be that a pinned receiver was a condition for W. Foerster's wares. Like you, I too think the side plates and selector was a later addition to the 9.3X74R Muzzelverschlu�. The frame at least experienced proof twice with the 1st pass looking to be in 1925. As stated a later pass may have been in 1934. Very unique Hubertus Cross on the underside of the muzzle.





Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

I have also wondered about this bulge under the muzzles. I have never seen something like this, what's the function? Additional weight for balancing the gun, or some means to influence regulation of the barrels? original or later addition?

In contrast to the fine engraving of the action, that Hubertus cross IMO looks cheap and out of place....

Martin

What the hell?

I don't even want to go down the road of wondering what the thought process was in "fix'n" the 9.3X74R clamshell. It's a shame to see such a fine piece fall into the hands of such an "artist", or something.

Buchseman

Yeah, Baumgarten the DR must have had some "slight" head of the stock damage and in 1934 a repair was attempted.



Finally, after searching & searching I finally stumbled across a late 1872 advert of W. Foerster touting his dubbed title of HofB�chsenmacher. So by 1871, or very early 1872, W. Foerster received his Royal Warrant while at Berlin Taubenstra�e 45.


Jagdgewehre und Ger�tschaften(?) Patronen in allen Calibern(??) empfiehlt

Heinrich Barella, H. Leue & Fritz Timpe, W. Foerster, A. Berger, C.B. Merrem, who was peddling Val. Chr. Schilling's wares, along with Franz Xaver Baader all were at this time firmly holding to the Lefaucheux platform for their sporting weapons as it was the staple. Johann Paul Miller(Miller & Greiss) hung out his gunmaking shingle in 1868 and acquired the Franz Xaver Baader firm in 1873, one year prior to Baader's death. Makes one wonder if he was a son-in-law.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

At the risk of being damned as pedantic, what you are talking about is the Muschelverschlu� (literally shell or clamshell action).

Indeed you are spot on and I don't think we are anywhere close to be donnish.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I just happened across this beautiful example of the above: http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3859202

If the pairing is correct of the W. Foerster DR & the case and with the other Barella-Foerster DR it would seem that W. Foerster was placing orders with H. Barella who in turn was sourcing some of the Brothers Merkel.


http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...&GunID=2322

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse