doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Boxlock "Best" Features

Chas. Lancaster Body Action or "0-grade" were also built with intercepting sears or "block" safety. Unless one has been inside of one or shown the mechanics, you'd never know the system was there.

Just put in my order with Amazon Senor Hadoke best

Yep, thats a Beesley body action spring opener with very different sprigs to an A&D gun. One of many variations which look like an A&D externally but operate quite differently.

The later Webley & Scott guns were graded--speaking of the 700 series here--but not marked on the guns. But those clever Brits wanted to confuse us poor Yanks, because the ranking, if you want to call them good/better/best, were: 700, good; 702, better; 701, best. Whether a 701 is truly a "best boxlock" can certainly be debated, but by its finish, quality of wood, engraving, etc, it was clearly the best of that particular series of guns. And so priced.

Grading systems are confusing and actually not very helpful when comparing one with another.

For example - anyone now considering a Churchill 'Utility' would be hard pressed to know where it fits in the range as compared to a 'Field' or 'Regal'. Churchill used a grading system with names but the names and grades sometimes changed or swapped places over the years.

Cogswell and Harrison also used a name system - 'Blagdon' and 'Sandhurst' etc.

Greener model designation indicated grade but also mechanical differences. A DH35 was and A&D 35 guinea gun, an FH35 was a Facile Princeps with Baker type forend ejectors for the same money.

Gallyon ran D1 - D8 model boxlocks of inclining quality.

Lots of trade makers ran model designations in scales of quality but these were never indicated in the same way by the firm which sold them.

Rigby sold boxlocks, not indicated by model designation but listed in the work books as 'C' or 'D' quality when ordered from B&P or W&S etc.

W&C Scott 1980s 'Chatsworth' 'Bowood' and 'Kinmount' models were quality variations, but a Chatsworth was nowhere close to the quality of a 1900 Bonehill of highest finish.

Holland & Holland 'Cavalier' models were touted as best London boxlocks but they don't compare to a lot of the guns Wilkes made much more low-key.

All just examples. Best boxlocks do appear all the time and were made in good quantities but here is no simple model designation or list of features to use and a short hand key to discover the absolutes as to what is what.

I think a long list of "must have" attributes won't catch some of the best guns, and suggest that the fit, finish and inherent quality of handwork is a key aspect.

In a boxlock of Anson and Deeley type, I find it hard to knock on this basic action for lack of safety sears, for example. I do think there are lots of modifications to this basic action type that can take this basic design to "best" status, but know also that this is quite subjective.

For example, this 16 might not be "best" to some, but it is to me:

Intercepting sears may be sign of "quality but some were just a pain in the arse .Bonhill had there is in a box that screwed to the back of the action ,most have been removed and thrown away . Webley and Scott guns ,no matter whose name they bore fitted them to some. Be aware that as the actions were all machined the same some may have pins behind the fences that may make you think they had interceptors fitted ,but they never were . The pins are only to fill the holes, rather than fit plugs .I also other guns that have had intercepters removed for one reason or another .

And a side plated boxlock Optimus or Thousand Dollar grade is chopped liver? I call Shenanigans.

Look at Dig's list of things that denote higher grade guns, and tell us which were applied to either gun. I can't see where the Webley and Scott 700 series guns Larry brought up fit in the picture, either-I've seen a few that were pretty rough.
What the great majority of folk in the US don't understand is that the term "Best" is as much a historical term that applies to English SXS guns as it is a descriptive term. Most of the refinements that developed in double guns happened there, and whether we North Americans like it or not, they get the credit for it.
A "Best Gun", is a British thing. Sorry.


Best,
Ted

Ted, in that context, I see the point of your explanation. I was looking at it from a descriptive standpoint rather than a historical one. Thanks.