doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Zumbo's comments

King, regardless of what I sometimes (almost) read into your posts, you are pretty well respected here yourself, yes, by me too. Did I say that right??

Joe, I was instructed by the NRA site to keep it respectful. Only Moses is allowed to chew the scenery.

jack

JM: I must have missed the part of the Nazi Weapons Law 1938 where it talks about interstate commerce, mail-order firearms and FFLs. Also missed the 1968 GCA references to Jews. Could you fill us by comparing 'near verbatim' sections? Thanks!

Eightbore, you got that right. I think we should be able to say anything to friends as long as the principals know that no one is being mean or mischievous.

Jack, The letter that I mentioned can be found in this transcript:
Hearings Before the Subcommittee To Investigate Juvenile Delinquency of the Committee on the Judiciary

United States Senate

Ninetieth Congress

2nd Session,

Pursuant to, S. Res. 240, Ninetieth Congress, on S.3961, S.3604, S. 3634, S. 3637, June 26, 27, 28 and July 8, 9, 10, 1968.

A copy of the Gun Control Act 1968, along with the Subcommittee hearings, testimony, and accompanying information such as the letter should be available from your Congressman.

Getting a copy of the Nazi Weapons Law 1938 is not difficult, but I hope you can understand German. If I recall, the JPFO use to have a translated copy.

JM - maybe we need a little 'tongue in cheek' icon. I asked for examples of 'near verbatim' copy between the 1938 Nazi Weapons law and the 1968 Gun Control Act, because I am pretty certain they don't exist. The JFPO material qualifies as 'urban myth.'

There were at least two weapons laws promulgated by the Hitler regime in 1938. The first, on March 18, was primarily an extension of the Weimar Republic's 1928 gun law, which already required gun owner licensing, gun registration and put restrictions on importation, sale and possession of various types of weapons. If anything, that earlier 1928 law came closest to our 1968 GCA, but it was nowhere close to 'verbatim.' Hitler's March 1938 law restricted handguns, but also made it easier for 'persons of good reputation' (i.e., Nazi party members) to get them.

The second law, published in Reichsgesetzblatt 188 on November 11, 1938, specifically placed weapons restrictions on Jews. Again, no language even remotely resembling GCA 1968.

The claim that Nazi weapons laws somehow set an ominous pattern for US gun control is bogus, IMHO. In 1938, Hitler was tremendously popular in Germany, there was no viable opposition and no possibility of one, guns or no guns.

The notion that the 1938 gun laws led to, or contributed significantly to, the Holocaust is equally specious. Nazi intentions had been spelled out long before (see Mein Kampf). By 1938 German Jews were already suffering oppression and confiscation of properties. Gun and owner registration had already been in effect for 10 years. Even had guns been readily available to Jews, they would also be available to the overwhelming majority of non-Jewish Germans who happily supported Hitler in his anti-Semitic campaign. The idea of an armed Jewish uprising in Hitler's Germany is preposterous.

Our own home-grown gun grabbers are scarey enough - we don't need to make up Nazi bogeyman stories.

Regardless of the accuracy of the material put out by the Jewish gun rights organization, the point is that many segments of the U.S. Jewish population are notorious liberals, probably vote for anti gun candidates. This organization is a bright light. I have been very supportive of the "organization" ever since I was introduced to it several years ago. Their rhetoric convinces me that there is diversity in Jewish political persuasion, something I didn't realize before. I am not sure what the gun rights attitude is among the Jewish population as a whole, but my many Jewish shooting and collecting buddies sure know how to spend their mad money. I assume their opinions about gun rights are reflected in their spending habits.

I'd say you were right.

We can't afford to be "regardless of the accuracy of the material" - if we are, it puts us in the same ethical position as our opponents.

Politically motivated urban legends such as Hillary's "vast right wing conspiracy," Dan Rather's manufactured attack on Bush's service, and Al Gore's "stolen victory" in 2000 are no less valid than the "1968 GCA verbatim from Hitler's gun laws."

The truth is our best weapon against gun control - let's not tarnish it.

Jack wrote:
"I asked for examples of 'near verbatim' copy between the 1938 Nazi Weapons law and the 1968 Gun Control Act, because I am pretty certain they don't exist. The JFPO material qualifies as 'urban myth.'"

(Well, what about the letter to Dodd's office? Is that a "myth"?So in other words, you're not willing to find out for yourself, you simply want to be told what is and what is not? Telling you will likely not change anything since you've already seem to have made up your mind that it doesn't exist. Regardless of what I post, you'll simply put your head in the sand and pretend it does not exist.
The Nazi Weapons Law 1938 copy that I have consists of 10 pages of very small print and GCA 1968 is 13 pages. When I get home this evening I'll look for my digital camera and I will take a picture of the copies that I have and upload it on my site. I hardly have time to post, and you think I can sit here and type out duplicates of the Nazi Weapons Law 1938 and GCA 1968 just for you to sit there and say it isn't so because you don't want to get them yourself and read it? If you've read both as you seem to imply, then what's the point? Perhaps I should ask you to post comparisons where they are different? Get both laws yourself, and then we'll discuss it.)

Jack wrote:
"The notion that the 1938 gun laws led to, or contributed significantly to, the Holocaust is equally specious. Nazi intentions had been spelled out long before (see Mein Kampf). By 1938 German Jews were already suffering oppression and confiscation of properties. Gun and owner registration had already been in effect for 10 years. Even had guns been readily available to Jews, they would also be available to the overwhelming majority of non-Jewish Germans who happily supported Hitler in his anti-Semitic campaign. The idea of an armed Jewish uprising in Hitler's Germany is preposterous."

(This topic was not in my original post. Regardless, I doubt most believe that if the gun control laws had never been passed the genocide would not have occurred. I believe it would have happened anyway, however, without the gun control laws, the death toll would have likely been lower. If it saves one life, it's worth it! Hitler's book was basically taken from Henry Ford's newspaper Dearbourne Independent(sp )


Both laws have these same basic requirements using different wording:
1) person had to meet certain requirements( law abiding, good character).
2) firearms dealers had to record and maintain purchases for the government and get a license.
3) Un-elected civil servants were given powers to decide who could own and carry firearms and what types of firearms can be owned
4) The classification of sporting purpose firearms (the Nazis actually coined the term "assault weapon").
5) transaction records of ammunition (this was repealed in America, though some are trying to bring it back)

Jack, if you refuse to believe this, that's fine, there's no point in going back and forth, but remember this. Most jews thought there was no threat since they had rights and lived in one of the most civilized nations on earth.