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Greg, others have commented more informatively on guns against fascism and I can only add that the Jews who could get out did and those who couldn't went to the camps. There was no other way. Fascism was wildly popular in Germany. Any notions of armed resistance must consider Warsaw and, to really put a fine point on it, the early French and British military performance against the most professional and powerful forces the world had ever seen. If the Brits, if the 51st Highlanders couldn't make a dent, how could the Jews?

Jack,

The letter proves that Dodd had in his possession a translated copy of the German law prior to writing GCA'68 (Gun Control Act 1968). The obvious question that you refuse to speculate or even consider is WHY? Rep. John Dingle (D-Michigan) made some objections in the House debate over this law that it resmebled too closely the NLW'38 (Nazi Law on Weapons 1938). He was attacked by Senator Tydings (D-MD) who I believe was from Maryland, and Dingle backed down. Why did this happen if they were not alike?

NFA'34 only put restrictions and a prohibitive tax on machine guns, short barreled rifles and shotguns only. GCA'68 and NLW'38 placed very similar restrictions on firearms dealers, transfers, and citizen possession that was applied to every gun.

BATF form 4473 and the Nazi Firearm Acquisition Permit (Waffenerwerbschein), which these laws created are very similar. They require almost identical information about the purchaser and the firearm.

Answer me straight up: Have you read both of these laws and compared them side by side?

Kingsley:

Parse this logically, and consider just what you have said.

Let me see. It would have been bad for the Jews to have been armed because their chance of sucess would have been low?

10,000 poorly armed starving wretches, who FOUGHT in the Warsaw Ghetto tied the Nazi police state in knots for a month. Most died. Most would have died anyway.

100,000 Jews on Krystallnacht or the the time peroid of the aftermath. They were not armed - most died. If they had been armed, most would have died. Some however, might not have. I know given a choice of being a helpless victim, or being a COMBATANT, which one I would choose. Its one thing to die in battle, quite another thing to be slaughtered like cattle.

My leftist friends seem to think there is some sort of moral superiority to be gained by achieving the status of "victimhood". I havent bought into that lie yet.

Regards

GKT

JM: I'm amazed such a lame conspiracy theory continues to circulate. Think about it. The letter is dated July 12, 1968. By the time that letter was written, most of the GCA provisions had gone through congressional hearings for years and the language was largely in place. So why did Dodd, after 7 years of working on gun control legislation (he started in 1961), suddenly ask for a copy of the Nazi law?

Probably because Rep. John Dingell, in a hearing before Dodd's committee, compared the proposed legislation to the 1938 Nazi law! If you were accused of copying something, wouldn't you want to check it out? Do you really imagine that on such a controversial topic, Dodd could read a document in mid-July, draw up a "near verbatim copy" and make it a law by October?

To be fair - if you understood the legislative process, you wouldn't have been suckered by the JFPO conspiracy theory. I've had considerable experience with state and federal legfislation. It can take years to get any major legislation drawn up, run through committees, redrawn, compromises hammered out, passed by the House, sent to the Senate, more hearings, more compromises, passed by the Senate, sent to conference, and finally voted up or down. The notion that a senator can scribble out a highly controversial law and make it happen in three months is ridiculous. So the date on the letter itself disproves the JPFO conspiracy theory.



Yes.

Well then, if the law was already crafted long before this time, then why was the Subcommittee to Investigate Juvenile Delingquency, which Dodd chaired, meeting on July 8th, 9th, and 10th in 1968 as dated on the Subcommittee Transcript that is on record at the Library of Congress? You don't meet on an investigative committee when the law as you claim was already written. The committee to investigate should have completed its work by then and submitted its findings to the Judiciary Committee if the law was already written. Also, no one is claiming that Dodd started the GCA'68 with this law, but he certainly ended with it. What official documentation do you have that Dodd was working on this bill for 7 years?



That does not answer my question. Why would Dingel compare the proposed bill to NLW'38 if they are not similar?



Yes, I have copies of all three laws, and I have read them. So, let's start discussing the individual laws section by section. Which one do you want to start with. Name the law and secion so there's no misunderstanding.

Oh Sheet. I just realized that if they make guns illegal my retirement is shot to hell. Jake

Not this bill, JM, lots of gun control bills. Quoting from this site: http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Vizzard3.htm

Upon assuming the chairmanship of the Juvenile Justice Subcommittee of the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1961, Senator Thomas Dodd (D-CT) directed the staff to conduct a study of mail order sales of firearms.[9] After two years of staff study, Senator Dodd introduced his first gun bill, Senate Bill 1975 and opened hearings to generate public interest in the gun issue.[

...During the summer of 1968, gun control advocates in Congress tested the limits of the new policy dynamics with the introduction of bills calling for registration and licensing of firearms...the Dodd subcommittee continued gun control hearings focused almost exclusively on these registration and licensing bills. Although the summer of 1968 marked the high water mark for gun control on the national policy agenda, none of the registration bills came close to passage. In October, Congress passed the GCA to replace Title IV of the Omnibus Act after a spirited debate in both the House and Senate and a flurry of motions by both supporters and opponents of gun control.

Note that it took two years of staff study for Dodd's first GC bill - and you think he wrote one up and whipped it through in 3 months?



Your first question was:



I think I have answered that sufficiently. Now it's your turn to answer the question I posted to you yesterday:

JM: It's verbatim! jm: You inflatem! Praise the Lord and Pass the Hermeneutics.

jack

Greg, I don't know what left or right has to do with the prospects of armed citizens taking on police and military enforcing the law. With all the means at their disposal, Hitler's generals tried twice to assassinate Hitler on the Eastern Front and couldn't penetrate his SS retinue.

There are more Canadians and Americans who currently disagree than agree with their federal government policies. Twice within a week Canada has struck down in Parliament and the Court sections of our anti-terrorism laws. No one here or there would take the law into their own hands.

I was in Oxford in the leafy town square the night General Walker and hundreds of his tough and determined supporters decided to take on the 82nd and 101st Airborne enforcing federal law to enrol James Meredith at Ole Miss. Where the law does not prevail, you have a police state.

You're not talking insurrection, are you? Sacrificing your life because you don't agree with the popular will as expressed in your legislatures? Of course not.

Regards, King

That's the tough part of democracy - you're free to vote your way - but you don't always get your way.