doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 1878 gun mount for Olympic Trap

Trapshooting Woman
Photo circa 1914

The Bogardus image certainly looks as if his head is well up. Agree with Mike that that looks like a stock with a lot of drop. And of course they weren't shooting Olympic trap in the 1870's, since the first modern games took place in 1896.

Drew, the mount in that picture is probably not quite complete. The "crouch" as seen in Hancock is nowhere near as extreme a crouch as used by Olympians Matt Dryke and Michael Thompson in 1984 and Al Mullins of the Army Marksmanship Unit during the same era. Marshall Lussen was another user of the low crouch. Apparently, the severe crouch of the eighties and nineties has been abandoned.

This is the earliest 'live action' picture of a trap shooter that I've found - from a newspaper account of the August 4,1912 Wisconsin State Amateur Championship shoot off between Fuller and Dreyfus. A far cry from the ATA shooters today (AND ALOT SKINNIER!), but close to the International Trap position



Leo Harrison, the Big Dog of Big Dogs



Possibly live action; Travers Island 1911. John R. Taylor station 3, Charles Newcomb station 5. I've not been able to identify the lefty shooting on Station 2.

I'm guessing this is what Drew mentioned --

Drew, the guy on station four is the famous Jack Fanning, but you probably knew that. Bill Murphy

Thanks Bill. Fanning and Neaf Apgar courtesy of Chris Lien



Fanning's position BTW was more upright. He was forced to give up competition for club development and teaching because of a hopeless flinch



And thanks Dave, that's alot more readable!

In his chapter on gun fit ("The Choice of a Gun") W.W. Greener pictures a typical English gun stock as having 1 1/2" drop at comb and 2" drop at heel and pictures a typical American gun stock as having a 2" DAC and 2 3/4" DAH. The greater drop which he describes in the American stock, he refers to as "more crooked", making this comment: "Americans use guns with stocks much more crooked, as, when shooting, they keep the head erect, and many [other] English colonists follow this rule, the crooked gunstock being quite common in South Africa and Australia." It seems to me that Drew's wonderful picture of Captain Adam Bogardus trap shooting (c. 1878) shows him shooting a crooked gunstock, with head held high to line up his eyes on the rib. Since Bogardus came from the mid-west and was a world champion shooter, I guess he figured out how to shoot straight with a crooked stock. I do think that I have seen more high dimensions earlier on English and Belgian guns than commonly seen on American guns, although I have some Lefevers, early and late, with very high dimensions. Over the years, it is clear that high dimensions of the English gun described by Greener have triumphed over the "crooked" or low dimensions that us colonials used to favor. Thanks for posting all these neat pictures, old and new.

The Big Dogs at the traps agreed with Greener Rich

In 1887, Parker company shooters W.S. Perry ordered a C Grade 10g with a LOP of 14 3/8" and DAC 1 1/4" X DAH 2" (Courtesy of Bill Murphy)
Fred Gilbert (1865-1928) was one of the world�s best known shooters from 1895-1915 and used a L.C. Smith to win the DuPont World�s Pigeon Shooting Championship in 1895 and the "E. C." Inanimate Target Championship Cup in 1896. The "Fred Gilbert Specifications" were for a drop at comb of 1 3/8 inches; at the heel, 2 inches; length from trigger to heel, 14 1/4 inches; trigger to toe 14 1/2 inches; and trigger to center of butt 14 inches; with a full pistol grip and 30-inch full choke barrels.

In Feb. 1898, C.W. Budd received on consignment a Parker $400 AAH Pigeon Gun SN 87449 with 30� Whitworth barrels, F/F and 2 7/8 inch chambers. LOP was 14�; and DAH 2 1/4"; with a pistol grip stock and no safety. It weighed 7# 12 oz.

Stock dimensions ordered by shooters that knew which end the shot comes out have not changed much from 1885 to 2012. Of course, ATA stocks are straighter but general purpose stocks have not changed in 127 years. It is a bit confusing that standard stocks of earlier days were so crooked and stocks ordered by experienced shooters were not.